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I know this is the standard advice and surely people need to pay attention to their diet, but exercise is not so marginal. For example running or swimming for

I know this is the standard advice and surely people need to pay attention to their diet, but exercise is not so marginal. For example running or swimming for an hour seems to be around 8-900 kcal based on various websites. Now that's not nothing, but also people won't do it daily for sure. I think nutrition advice is really hard because people already (have to) factor in the likelihood of following the advice by a general average person, their propensity to lie to themselves to be in denial, etc. If you actually (not just in your daydreams) do a lot of daily exercise (not just drive to the gym and read Facebook), it will matter in terms of calories. I'm not saying this to counter your advice. Advice is hard, it is tangled up in motivational systems etc. but sometimes people may get the wrong idea in the other direction. It is true that exercise cannot make up for bad eating habits especially if you eat back more afterwards because you believe you earned this. I think that whole type of relationship to food is unhealthy (junk binge is reward, fast and exercise is punishment). A few sit-ups won't undo a chocolate chip. Etc etc. But regular exercise all else equal does have a significant effect. Yes, nothing is all else equal, but then we end up making so many assumptions on how people will react that the whole debate is infused with assumptions like, but then you will lie to yourself and actually follow the opposite advice and so I need to tell you this other thing.

kelnos 6y ago
> But regular exercise all else equal does have a significant effect. Yes, nothing is all else equal... Right, and that's the problem. Even if you do avoid "cheating" and "I ran X miles so I deserve this" type things, your body will still mess with your metabolism to compensate for the added exercise, and that works against the weight loss plan. I went from near-zero exercise to ~10 miles of running per week, and maintained that more or less for 2 years without experiencing any significant weight loss (it was/is definitely valuable for general cardiovascular health, though). Only changing my diet helped, and even then it was difficult to lose weight and keep it off (took a year to lose ~7 lbs, and less than half that to put them back one). But now with COVID-19 and sheltering in place, I've been cooking nearly every day, and in less than three months have lost 15 lbs, and I've been running less than usual. But really, everyone's individual experience differs. It seems like nutrition and exercise advice really needs to be tailored to each person, and sometimes there's a bit of trial and error involved.
- bonoboTP 6y ago
  I find it easier to eat right when I do cardio and weight exercise. Maybe it's about practicing tolerating discomfort in the moment. Or about hormones. But I just don't crave junk when I exercise. Or it's because I don't have time to sit around on the couch and be bored because I fill the time with exercise. Not sure why. But I've never really been more than 5-10 kg overweight, so slow and steady was good for me. My issue was rather body composition, not pure weight. You need to train to gain lean mass. Losing weight at all price is only the very beginning of the journey. Also I rather like to track things like waist circumference rather than weight. Your weight may stay the same, while becoming more lean. Of course if you start as overweight as the average American, your first goal may reasonably be to just lose weight and figure out leanness afterwards. Still exercise may help so many other aspects like mood, energy,sleep quality etc. (even if not in the moment but with an hour or day or two delay) which are all helpful to keep oneself on track in the kitchen. It can be a concrete motivational goal to be able to lift this or that much, run so and so far, and it's straightforward to see how you will need to pay attention to your food it you want to achieve that.
  - kelnos 6y ago
    As I said, everyone's experience differs. I find that my desire to snack and eat junk food does not change at all depending on how much or how little exercise I get. > Still exercise may help so many other aspects like mood, energy,sleep quality etc. (even if not in the moment but with an hour or day or two delay) which are all helpful to keep oneself on track in the kitchen. So, in other words, my initial statement is correct: you're not going to make meaningful progress weight-loss-wise without changing your diet. If exercising makes that easier for you as a second-order effect, that's great. But that's by no means universal.

kelnos 6y ago

> But regular exercise all else equal does have a significant effect. Yes, nothing is all else equal... Right, and that's the problem. Even if you do avoid "cheating" and "I ran X miles so I deserve this" type things, your body will still mess with your metabolism to compensate for the added exercise, and that works against the weight loss plan. I went from near-zero exercise to ~10 miles of running per week, and maintained that more or less for 2 years without experiencing any significant weight loss (it was/is definitely valuable for general cardiovascular health, though). Only changing my diet helped, and even then it was difficult to lose weight and keep it off (took a year to lose ~7 lbs, and less than half that to put them back one). But now with COVID-19 and sheltering in place, I've been cooking nearly every day, and in less than three months have lost 15 lbs, and I've been running less than usual. But really, everyone's individual experience differs. It seems like nutrition and exercise advice really needs to be tailored to each person, and sometimes there's a bit of trial and error involved.

bonoboTP 6y ago
I find it easier to eat right when I do cardio and weight exercise. Maybe it's about practicing tolerating discomfort in the moment. Or about hormones. But I just don't crave junk when I exercise. Or it's because I don't have time to sit around on the couch and be bored because I fill the time with exercise. Not sure why. But I've never really been more than 5-10 kg overweight, so slow and steady was good for me. My issue was rather body composition, not pure weight. You need to train to gain lean mass. Losing weight at all price is only the very beginning of the journey. Also I rather like to track things like waist circumference rather than weight. Your weight may stay the same, while becoming more lean. Of course if you start as overweight as the average American, your first goal may reasonably be to just lose weight and figure out leanness afterwards. Still exercise may help so many other aspects like mood, energy,sleep quality etc. (even if not in the moment but with an hour or day or two delay) which are all helpful to keep oneself on track in the kitchen. It can be a concrete motivational goal to be able to lift this or that much, run so and so far, and it's straightforward to see how you will need to pay attention to your food it you want to achieve that.
- kelnos 6y ago
  As I said, everyone's experience differs. I find that my desire to snack and eat junk food does not change at all depending on how much or how little exercise I get. > Still exercise may help so many other aspects like mood, energy,sleep quality etc. (even if not in the moment but with an hour or day or two delay) which are all helpful to keep oneself on track in the kitchen. So, in other words, my initial statement is correct: you're not going to make meaningful progress weight-loss-wise without changing your diet. If exercising makes that easier for you as a second-order effect, that's great. But that's by no means universal.