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Come on. Trump's base thinks Snowden is a patriot. Do you even know Roger Stone?

fit2rule 6y ago
Snowden is a patriot in my mind, and I'm no Trump supporter. Just because you associate Snowden with Trump, as per standard agitprop victim procedure, doesn't mean that you should ignore the very real criminal behaviour that Snowden revealed to the world. You should probably pay more attention to the fact of illegal behaviour, more than playing cult doll games ..
- jerkstate 6y ago
  Every time I say something that can vaguely be construed as not correctly hating Trump or his supporters on this forum I get responses like this, using insulting emotional phrases like “cult doll games.” I was merely pointing out what I see as a misconception in his likely motivations. I still think the scenario GP presented is extremely unlikely and alarmist, why would you call my post agitprop and not that one?
  - fit2rule 6y ago
    Just so its clear, I'm not aligned with the collective view that Trump is a Putin agent - I think this is an excuse used to ignore America's true, real crimes, against humanity which occurred way before Trump came to power, and is a deflection from the real issue - which is that America has been getting away with the murder of innocent people for decades in its illegal wars. From my point of view, it'd actually be GREAT if America could get along with Russia. This would require a great deal of humility and a vacation of vast amounts of hubris on both sides, however. "Trump is a Russian agent" is a meme designed to protect fragile American ego's from the truth, which is that America, through its unhindered asymmetric, illegal wars, is the #1 cause of violent, murderous upheaval in the world today - and therefore actually kind of deserves the orange buffoon tearing things to pieces. When war criminals are allowed to roam free, eventually the society they choose to rule becomes their target. That said, I don't love/hate Trump as an idol, either way. He is the least of America's problems. You're right though, we will trigger a great deal of animosity from the Trump-hating(,-loving) collective when we point this out. Agitprop is designed to push the collective mind in a desired direction - all the hating of Trump right now is doing, is preventing Americans from inspecting the real, legitimate war crimes and crimes against humanity that their nation has been committing - Trump-hatred is an Emmanuel Goldstein-like distraction mechanism. "The Party" (Joint Chiefs of Staff and the CFR) still gets away with murder, whoever is the figurehead...
    - jerkstate 6y ago
      Well, I mostly agree with you, not sure how much I can add to this without getting way into the weeds besides saying that I hope that the sacrifices of people like Snowden were not in vain and the USA does eventually get their intelligence agencies under control.
colejohnson66 6y ago
That is most decidedly not true. If it was, his base would be clamoring for restrictions on the NSA’s spying. The truth is: no one in the public cares.
- jerkstate 6y ago
  What's your source for your claim that Trump's base does not care about warrantless spying? You can see an example of priorities in coverage and reaction to the recent defeat/delay of the FISA re-authorization in the House. Here's a recent article from a right-wing outlet, PJ Media, which I feel is at least somewhat representative of Trump's base: https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/rick-moran/2020/05/28/house-fails-to-pass-fisa-re-authorization-after-trump-veto-threat-n442011 https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/rick-moran/2020/05/28/... If this wouldn't draw readers, why would they write the article? Here's a counterpoint article from the left-wing outlet Politico: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/28/pelosi-pulls-fisa-bill-amid-objections-from-gop-and-progressives-286939 https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/28/pelosi-pulls-fisa-b... To get a flavor of what his base thinks, you can look through replies to some of his tweets on the matter: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1266017512162037761 https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/12660175121620377... Not sure how you came to your conclusions, please elucidate me.
  - AndrewBissell 6y ago
    The only reason Trump's base cares one whit about FISA is because it was used (yes, quite illegitimately in my opinion) to spy on Trump and his campaign & staff in the runup to his inauguration. If they actually care about mass surveillance and such, why doesn't Trump put forward some proposals and measures to reign it in? Instead he is seeking to expand it with his AG trying to ban E2E encrypted messaging.

Snowden is a patriot in my mind, and I'm no Trump supporter. Just because you associate Snowden with Trump, as per standard agitprop victim procedure, doesn't mean that you should ignore the very real criminal behaviour that Snowden revealed to the world. You should probably pay more attention to the fact of illegal behaviour, more than playing cult doll games ..

jerkstate 6y ago
Every time I say something that can vaguely be construed as not correctly hating Trump or his supporters on this forum I get responses like this, using insulting emotional phrases like “cult doll games.” I was merely pointing out what I see as a misconception in his likely motivations. I still think the scenario GP presented is extremely unlikely and alarmist, why would you call my post agitprop and not that one?
- fit2rule 6y ago
  Just so its clear, I'm not aligned with the collective view that Trump is a Putin agent - I think this is an excuse used to ignore America's true, real crimes, against humanity which occurred way before Trump came to power, and is a deflection from the real issue - which is that America has been getting away with the murder of innocent people for decades in its illegal wars. From my point of view, it'd actually be GREAT if America could get along with Russia. This would require a great deal of humility and a vacation of vast amounts of hubris on both sides, however. "Trump is a Russian agent" is a meme designed to protect fragile American ego's from the truth, which is that America, through its unhindered asymmetric, illegal wars, is the #1 cause of violent, murderous upheaval in the world today - and therefore actually kind of deserves the orange buffoon tearing things to pieces. When war criminals are allowed to roam free, eventually the society they choose to rule becomes their target. That said, I don't love/hate Trump as an idol, either way. He is the least of America's problems. You're right though, we will trigger a great deal of animosity from the Trump-hating(,-loving) collective when we point this out. Agitprop is designed to push the collective mind in a desired direction - all the hating of Trump right now is doing, is preventing Americans from inspecting the real, legitimate war crimes and crimes against humanity that their nation has been committing - Trump-hatred is an Emmanuel Goldstein-like distraction mechanism. "The Party" (Joint Chiefs of Staff and the CFR) still gets away with murder, whoever is the figurehead...
  - jerkstate 6y ago
    Well, I mostly agree with you, not sure how much I can add to this without getting way into the weeds besides saying that I hope that the sacrifices of people like Snowden were not in vain and the USA does eventually get their intelligence agencies under control.

colejohnson66 6y ago

That is most decidedly not true. If it was, his base would be clamoring for restrictions on the NSA’s spying. The truth is: no one in the public cares.

jerkstate 6y ago
What's your source for your claim that Trump's base does not care about warrantless spying? You can see an example of priorities in coverage and reaction to the recent defeat/delay of the FISA re-authorization in the House. Here's a recent article from a right-wing outlet, PJ Media, which I feel is at least somewhat representative of Trump's base: https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/rick-moran/2020/05/28/house-fails-to-pass-fisa-re-authorization-after-trump-veto-threat-n442011 https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/rick-moran/2020/05/28/... If this wouldn't draw readers, why would they write the article? Here's a counterpoint article from the left-wing outlet Politico: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/28/pelosi-pulls-fisa-bill-amid-objections-from-gop-and-progressives-286939 https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/28/pelosi-pulls-fisa-b... To get a flavor of what his base thinks, you can look through replies to some of his tweets on the matter: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1266017512162037761 https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/12660175121620377... Not sure how you came to your conclusions, please elucidate me.
- AndrewBissell 6y ago
  The only reason Trump's base cares one whit about FISA is because it was used (yes, quite illegitimately in my opinion) to spy on Trump and his campaign & staff in the runup to his inauguration. If they actually care about mass surveillance and such, why doesn't Trump put forward some proposals and measures to reign it in? Instead he is seeking to expand it with his AG trying to ban E2E encrypted messaging.