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Okay, elide "partisan" from my comment. My point is that there was never an "objective" news that didn't fall somewhere on the left/right spectrum and which co

by js2 6y ago

Okay, elide "partisan" from my comment. My point is that there was never an "objective" news that didn't fall somewhere on the left/right spectrum and which colored how that source presented the news. > Objective journalism is not about giving both sides an equal voice. It is OK to use rationale and logic to support one side over the other. I agree. But don't you think that reporters at The Atlantic and at the National Review both think they are doing that? Or NPR vs Fox News? And yet they present very different views of the news. > Should all journalism about evolution also include equal time for creationism? You won't find me arguing for that.

baddox 6y ago
It’s okay to take positions on factual matters even if a political party also happens to take that same position. If one party believes the Earth revolves around the Sun, and the other party disagrees, it’s not exactly “partisan” (at least not in the pejorative sense) to take a side on that matter.
- roenxi 6y ago
  If that is the standard, political parties will just start claiming that all their opinions are factual (as happens in practice, coincidentally). If we had an algorithm to sort fact from fiction then that would be fine, but we don't. Our method for sorting fact and fiction is to ask an expert. Experts are not reliable in political situations because there are experts who are willing to believe anything for money. Particularly for economic questions where it is likely that the experts have a financial stake in one political outcome.
  - ithkuil 6y ago
    It's not only money. People are ready to believe (or to claim they believe) in things they think will make the world a better place (for some definition of better). This where the real partisanship lies. Tell a white lie, turn a blind eye, jump to conclusion, ... are all easy things to do if they justify moving the needle towards a world you truly think it's better. People of course have wildly different standards w.r.t what "better" means. And once shaped, the goal is hard to change. It takes more than facts or logical arguments to change one's idea if what the ideal world looks like. It's part of your identity, it's intertwined with your community.
  - baddox 6y ago
    I didn’t mention opinions which are claimed to be factual matters. I mentioned factual matters. The fact that people can lie isn’t exactly new.
andreskytt 6y ago
You are right, all media coverage is filtered. But that filter used to be considered something to be minimized, balanced out and carefully managed

by js2 6y ago

baddox 6y ago

It’s okay to take positions on factual matters even if a political party also happens to take that same position. If one party believes the Earth revolves around the Sun, and the other party disagrees, it’s not exactly “partisan” (at least not in the pejorative sense) to take a side on that matter.

roenxi 6y ago
If that is the standard, political parties will just start claiming that all their opinions are factual (as happens in practice, coincidentally). If we had an algorithm to sort fact from fiction then that would be fine, but we don't. Our method for sorting fact and fiction is to ask an expert. Experts are not reliable in political situations because there are experts who are willing to believe anything for money. Particularly for economic questions where it is likely that the experts have a financial stake in one political outcome.
- ithkuil 6y ago
  It's not only money. People are ready to believe (or to claim they believe) in things they think will make the world a better place (for some definition of better). This where the real partisanship lies. Tell a white lie, turn a blind eye, jump to conclusion, ... are all easy things to do if they justify moving the needle towards a world you truly think it's better. People of course have wildly different standards w.r.t what "better" means. And once shaped, the goal is hard to change. It takes more than facts or logical arguments to change one's idea if what the ideal world looks like. It's part of your identity, it's intertwined with your community.
- baddox 6y ago
  I didn’t mention opinions which are claimed to be factual matters. I mentioned factual matters. The fact that people can lie isn’t exactly new.

andreskytt 6y ago

You are right, all media coverage is filtered. But that filter used to be considered something to be minimized, balanced out and carefully managed