5 ms·

Man, I'm trying real hard to make my dad to use linux, I spent 3 hours last weekend formatting and setting up his computer with ubuntu, but developers are letti

by atum47 6y ago

Man, I'm trying real hard to make my dad to use linux, I spent 3 hours last weekend formatting and setting up his computer with ubuntu, but developers are letting new users down. He is familiar with chrome, so after the installation he downloaded chrome. At this point I was hoping that he would be able to just double click the .deb file and install with no hassle, but he couldn't. I don't know if was the package manager fault or google's... All I now is as long as people have to use the terminal to do basic things, windows users won't be able to make te switch. Nice job though, we need more projects like this.

derefr 6y ago
> double click the .deb file and install with no hassle That sounds like a great way to finally introduce the concept of trojan-horse malware to the consumer Linux ecosystem. You should almost never be installing a raw .deb, anyway, because packages form networks of requirements/versions/etc. It’s probably outdated, and might even be for the wrong version of the OS—or even for the wrong distro! The proper GUI workflow, I think, would be for third-parties like Google to offer for download some sort of file representing just an apt PGP-code-signing-identity + source list; and then double-clicking it would open it in Software Center or the like to do the GUI equivalent of apt-add-repository: asking you if you want to trust $ORG and follow the http://org.example.com http://org.example.com apt repo. You’d say yes, and then `apt update` would get triggered, and new packages would appear (hopefully highlighted as such) in the Software Center list. I’m kind of surprised things don’t already work this way. I think it’s because—other than Chrome—there’s pretty much nothing consumers want to install on Linux that isn’t best installed from the distro’s first-party package repo. For Debian/Ubuntu at least, I can’t think of a single PPA or vendor apt host—other than Chrome’s—that solves a consumer (rather than developer/administrator) use-case.
- rkangel 6y ago
  What you have described basically is how you install Chrome and a lot of other commercially developed apps (e.g. MS Teams). At least it is in the RPM world and I thought it was for deb too. You download the RPM and click it to 'execute' in your downloads. It opens in software Centre. That package sets up an extra repo and then installs the program you want from that repo.
  - dungdang 6y ago
    and this is ine of the reasons linux is a dud as a desktop os. there is no 'malware' here. the guy went to the company's official site. downloaded their official installer. running that should now do the install and figure out whatever else it needs. like it does on windows. yes, if you download and install malware that's bad. no one asked you to be the nanny -just di what you were asked.
    - zrm 6y ago
      You can download the official installer and install it. That's just not what happens by default when you click on it, because that's not how you get 99% of software on Linux. So if you're doing it that way it's either because you know what you're doing, in which case you know what to do with the .deb, or you don't know what you're doing, in which case you ought not to be installing random binaries from the web. All you have to do on Ubuntu is right click on it and choose "Open With Other Application" and then choose "Software Install". But that friction is intentional. It makes you pause and ask why that software isn't in the package manager. And then whether you really need a browser with a proprietary license and closed source components instead of using Firefox or installing Chromium, which is in the package manager.
      - MikusR 6y ago
        That doesn'work in latest Ubuntu. You have to use dpkg from terminal
        zrm 6y ago
        I just tried it in Ubuntu 20.04 and it worked. Software Install can open a .deb, it's just not associated with them by default to keep novices from shooting themselves in the foot.
        MikusR 6y ago
        When I tried a couple weeks ago it didn't.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- ies7 6y ago
  There still places without internet access. My team still need offline installer.
  - shakna 6y ago
    Apt can handle offline installers. It's one of the core parts of the product. If you need to customise it, then the guides around setting up a "DVD repository" will put you on the right path.
gen3 6y ago
If it means anything, KDE allows you to click on a .deb and install it. I’ve had good luck with Kubuntu and ElementaryOS.
debiandev 6y ago
> I was hoping that he would be able to just double click the .deb file and install with no hassle, but he couldn't. I don't know if was the package manager fault or google's And yet people praise Android for "inventing" the app store and preventing people from [inadvertently] installing stuff from random website.
harpratap 6y ago
Why not use the Ubuntu store?
sergeykish 6y ago
Sorry, it is Windows that is lagging behind. As a Linux user I find myself insecure running applications from the web. Distribution maintained packages is the way to go. And package managers has GUI shells - last time I used it was Ubuntu Software Center [1] on Ubuntu 9.10. Looks like these days it is Ubuntu Snap [2]. Windows finally catching up with winget [3], already GUI shells by 3rd party developers [4], some day may be part of the installation. I do not know why it took so long, there is no Chrome both on Steam Store and Microsoft Store. Looks like Microsoft tried to bend developers [5], but what's with Valve? Searching and downloading of installers, keeping them is such a crappy experience. On Linux is 1000% better. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Software_Center https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Software_Center [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snap_(package_manager) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snap_(package_manager) [3] https://github.com/microsoft/winget-pkgs/tree/master/manifests/Google/Chrome https://github.com/microsoft/winget-pkgs/tree/master/manifes... [4] https://www.google.com/search?q=winget+GUI https://www.google.com/search?q=winget+GUI [5] https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/19/16797358/microsoft-google-chrome-windows-store-removal https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/19/16797358/microsoft-googl...
kgraves 6y ago
Couldn't you do this with WSL2 and saved yourself 3 hours? It's the best of both worlds really.

by atum47 6y ago

derefr 6y ago

> double click the .deb file and install with no hassle That sounds like a great way to finally introduce the concept of trojan-horse malware to the consumer Linux ecosystem. You should almost never be installing a raw .deb, anyway, because packages form networks of requirements/versions/etc. It’s probably outdated, and might even be for the wrong version of the OS—or even for the wrong distro! The proper GUI workflow, I think, would be for third-parties like Google to offer for download some sort of file representing just an apt PGP-code-signing-identity + source list; and then double-clicking it would open it in Software Center or the like to do the GUI equivalent of apt-add-repository: asking you if you want to trust $ORG and follow the http://org.example.com http://org.example.com apt repo. You’d say yes, and then `apt update` would get triggered, and new packages would appear (hopefully highlighted as such) in the Software Center list. I’m kind of surprised things don’t already work this way. I think it’s because—other than Chrome—there’s pretty much nothing consumers want to install on Linux that isn’t best installed from the distro’s first-party package repo. For Debian/Ubuntu at least, I can’t think of a single PPA or vendor apt host—other than Chrome’s—that solves a consumer (rather than developer/administrator) use-case.

rkangel 6y ago
What you have described basically is how you install Chrome and a lot of other commercially developed apps (e.g. MS Teams). At least it is in the RPM world and I thought it was for deb too. You download the RPM and click it to 'execute' in your downloads. It opens in software Centre. That package sets up an extra repo and then installs the program you want from that repo.
- dungdang 6y ago
  and this is ine of the reasons linux is a dud as a desktop os. there is no 'malware' here. the guy went to the company's official site. downloaded their official installer. running that should now do the install and figure out whatever else it needs. like it does on windows. yes, if you download and install malware that's bad. no one asked you to be the nanny -just di what you were asked.
  - zrm 6y ago
    You can download the official installer and install it. That's just not what happens by default when you click on it, because that's not how you get 99% of software on Linux. So if you're doing it that way it's either because you know what you're doing, in which case you know what to do with the .deb, or you don't know what you're doing, in which case you ought not to be installing random binaries from the web. All you have to do on Ubuntu is right click on it and choose "Open With Other Application" and then choose "Software Install". But that friction is intentional. It makes you pause and ask why that software isn't in the package manager. And then whether you really need a browser with a proprietary license and closed source components instead of using Firefox or installing Chromium, which is in the package manager.
    - MikusR 6y ago
      That doesn'work in latest Ubuntu. You have to use dpkg from terminal
      - zrm 6y ago
        I just tried it in Ubuntu 20.04 and it worked. Software Install can open a .deb, it's just not associated with them by default to keep novices from shooting themselves in the foot.
        MikusR 6y ago
        When I tried a couple weeks ago it didn't.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
ies7 6y ago
There still places without internet access. My team still need offline installer.
- shakna 6y ago
  Apt can handle offline installers. It's one of the core parts of the product. If you need to customise it, then the guides around setting up a "DVD repository" will put you on the right path.

gen3 6y ago

If it means anything, KDE allows you to click on a .deb and install it. I’ve had good luck with Kubuntu and ElementaryOS.

debiandev 6y ago

> I was hoping that he would be able to just double click the .deb file and install with no hassle, but he couldn't. I don't know if was the package manager fault or google's And yet people praise Android for "inventing" the app store and preventing people from [inadvertently] installing stuff from random website.

harpratap 6y ago

Why not use the Ubuntu store?

sergeykish 6y ago

Sorry, it is Windows that is lagging behind. As a Linux user I find myself insecure running applications from the web. Distribution maintained packages is the way to go. And package managers has GUI shells - last time I used it was Ubuntu Software Center [1] on Ubuntu 9.10. Looks like these days it is Ubuntu Snap [2]. Windows finally catching up with winget [3], already GUI shells by 3rd party developers [4], some day may be part of the installation. I do not know why it took so long, there is no Chrome both on Steam Store and Microsoft Store. Looks like Microsoft tried to bend developers [5], but what's with Valve? Searching and downloading of installers, keeping them is such a crappy experience. On Linux is 1000% better. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Software_Center https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Software_Center [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snap_(package_manager) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snap_(package_manager) [3] https://github.com/microsoft/winget-pkgs/tree/master/manifests/Google/Chrome https://github.com/microsoft/winget-pkgs/tree/master/manifes... [4] https://www.google.com/search?q=winget+GUI https://www.google.com/search?q=winget+GUI [5] https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/19/16797358/microsoft-google-chrome-windows-store-removal https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/19/16797358/microsoft-googl...

kgraves 6y ago

Couldn't you do this with WSL2 and saved yourself 3 hours? It's the best of both worlds really.