14 ms·

Weird Keyboards, Programmable Keyboards

138 points by ecliptik 6y ago

Fang_ 6y ago
Been using a Gergo for well over a year now. I think I might own the first one that was made with the low-profile Kailh Choc switches. I can't imagine going back to anything else. The low profile, combined with custom key layout (workman, modifiers on homerows, etc) has done wonders for my RSI. Of course, tho "wow, what's that"-factor is also fun.
- eeh 6y ago
  Modifiers on home row has been the killer feature for me. Do you have all four modifies on each side?
melling 6y ago
"But the ErgoDox suffers on massive flaw, the thumb cluster is horrible for the outer thumb keys, half the buttons on the cluster are unusable/reachable and it's got this giant top." Never used an ErgoDox. How do others find the thumb cluster?
- lawn 6y ago
  I do find it horrible. I can hit one key comfortably and another one is usable. The rest are just superfluous.
- Asooka 6y ago
  He's right that the outer keys are hard to reach, but it's not a problem for me - I just put the least used keys there, e.g. insert, layer 3, right super, sysrq, and so on.
- BubRoss 6y ago
  It isn't that bad.
- stonecharioteer 6y ago
  I don't use an ergodox but know someone who swears by it. I use a Lily58 and a Corne. Both run with the idea. I have always noticed that I used only my left thumb for space on a regular 104 keyboard. So my right thumb was mostly useless. With a thumb cluster on either side I am forced to use both thumbs. I even assign keys I use a lot to the thumb cluster, especially the layer modifier. I am fairly adept at the split layout now, and refuse to use a 104 keyboard anymore.
- IronBacon 6y ago
  I have one that's collecting dust. I should probably try with sculpted keycaps instead of the DSA I've right now (i.e. all keys with the same profile).
  - smichel17 6y ago
    I got the sculpted caps, and while I'm not sure how much difference they make, I am confident that the lack of labels has made me more inclined to experiment with layout tweaks (I view this as a good thing).
- sethammons 6y ago
  I have the EZ. I find it too different to use. It now sits in a closet because the 25% return fee is steep. I’ve always liked the Microsoft Ergo 4000. I got a cloudnine (mechanical, very similar to the 4000) and the EZ at the same time. I could type immediately on the cloudnine (~70wpm). The EZ was just too different. I couldn’t even type at half-speed. The vertical key layout and the different placement of all the “side keys” - I was not, and continue to not be, willing to reduce my typing speed so dramatically when I had the cloudnine that I could transfer two decades of typing experience to.
- lorenzfx 6y ago
  I can easily hit the bottom parts of every row, but I have pretty big hands.
- commanderkeen08 6y ago
  They’re not supposed to be reachable. But there’s a slight adjustment needed to reach them for sure. The outer thumbs work great for things like shift and delete. My right outer thumb is right shift. When I need to shift something on my left side, my right hand is always free to make that slight adjustment. It feels much better than having put all that on my weakest finger, the pinky. The outer outer keys are absolutely not meant to be reachable. They’re macro keys for me (global microphone mute switch).
- CarVac 6y ago
  I find the ErgoDox thumb clusters unreachably far. I prefer the Mitosis key arrangement with the thumb clusters directly underneath the alphas.
- andrewnc 6y ago
  I use one exclusively. I was a pianist at one point in my life. The ErgoDox is a game changer for my wrists and pinkies. I got back up to speed in a week. It's awesome for me.
- eeh 6y ago
  I use an Ergodox. I have long thumbs but can only comfortably reach 2 (3?) of the 6 buttons in the thumb cluster. The whole point of the Ergodox for me was to avoid uncomfortable movements, so I don't use those keys. I'm happy with the Ergodox, but if I ever need to replace it, I'll be looking at something with a reduced key set such as the Gergo.
  - rgharris 6y ago
    I’m in the same situation. I have large hands but only use 2 thumb buttons per side and also use layers to avoid the top row of the keyboard altogether. I love the Ergodox but prefer to limit my reach for better ergonomics.
- garrettdimon 6y ago
  I don’t have any trouble with the three bottom thumb keys in the cluster, but the top three aren’t very useful. I’ve remapped them to media or macro shortcuts that I don’t use while typing.
- pedrovhb 6y ago
  I use an ErgoDox EZ exclusively. I have fairly big hands and can comfortably hit 3 of the thumb keys on each side and regularly use them. The other 3 aren't really reachable in a typing "stance" but can be used for functionality that is unrelated to typing but is useful to have dedicated keys for; for instance, I have one that is set to Win + Shift + Q which closes the currently active window in my i3wm setup, and a couple others I use for setting and going to code bookmarks in PyCharm. Here's my current layout: https://configure.ergodox-ez.com/ergodox-ez/layouts/7JV4o/latest/0 https://configure.ergodox-ez.com/ergodox-ez/layouts/7JV4o/la...
- dharmab 6y ago
  I find the thumb clusters perfectly sized and positioned. I can easily hit the bottom four keys on each cluster and can reach up to the top two without issues. I suspect this depends strongly on the size and flexibility of your hands.
  - gpm 6y ago
    Would you say you have big hands? Small hands? Normal sized hands?
  - rgharris 6y ago
    I have fairly large hands and could hit all of the thumb keys. But I only use 2 so that I don’t have any reach or large movements when typing. I agree that it depends on hand size and your preference. Regardless, it has been an awesome keyboard for me due to customizing layout/layers.
- erikerikson 6y ago
  That's accurate in my experience. I adjust my hands to use those which is fine if not optimal. I also find thumbs a little clumsy, particularly after a stretch to outer keys so multiple keys activate sometimes. My enter is center and backspace to it's right so I'll often delete the last character before sending chat. The bottom-outer keys tend to be really awkward to use also. I tried the Kinesis A. 2 before this and prefer ErgoDox but miss the curved keywells to reduce travel and really want more keys as I feel resistant to the layers thing. The Dactyl was attractive but I haven't had capacity for this kind of project for some time.
- ptomato 6y ago
  I found the thumb cluster borderline unusable on the Ergodox. The Keyboardio Model 01, which is my daily driver now, has a somewhat similar layout but excellent positioning on the thumb cluster and modifier button.
- gtaylor 6y ago
  I've got an ErgoDox at home and a Kinesis Advantage II at work. I find the ErgoDox to be more sensible for light gaming (compared to the Kinesis), but the thumb cluster on the Kinesis is way easier (for me) to reach and navigate. I've mostly adapted to the ErgoDox thumb cluster at this point, but prefer to do longer bouts of typing or coding on the Kinesis. The ErgoDex is more versatile but less comfortable.
  - badlucklottery 6y ago
    >The ErgoDex is more versatile but less comfortable. This has been my experience as well. I think the ErgoDex is likely more comfortable for people with smaller hands though. But the Kinesis feels about perfect for me. I have a Logitech T650 attached to the center with double-sided tape so it's also good for lap-typing when I need it.
- phaus 6y ago
  I can comfortably reach 3 keys with each hand. Its awesome. I bind stuff that isn't really used much during normal typing to the remaining 3 thumb keys. I would never go back to a keyboard without a thumb cluster after using this. The Keyboardio is a similar idea, with the drawback IMO that its not ortholinear, but it has a better thumb cluster. The Dactyl Manuform is another great option. The shape of it makes it easier to reach all 6 thumb cluster keys.
Abishek_Muthian 6y ago
Is there open designs available for inexpensive DIY one hand keyboard? The accessibility keyboards are prohibitively expensive[1]. [1]https://needgap.com/problems/96-one-hand-keyboard-keyboard-accessibility https://needgap.com/problems/96-one-hand-keyboard-keyboard-a...
- stonecharioteer 6y ago
  You could just get a corne and set up only one hand. Would have to play a lot with layers if you want all keys though.
- lawn 6y ago
  Maybe a dactyl manuform would be good? (Google it). You can 3D print only one half and hand-wire the rest yourself.
- Luc 6y ago
  Not what you're asking but used one-handed Maltron keyboards can often be had for little money on ebay UK. There's one for 45 Pounds at the moment. Bit clunky and creaky though. Personally I'd get a Kinesis Advantage with a footswitch. Use one half of they keyboard as is, and the footswitch to change the layout.
- ZeroGravitas 6y ago
  http://www.aboutonehandtyping.com/howto.html http://www.aboutonehandtyping.com/howto.html One cheap alternative is to learn how to type with one hand on a standard qwerty. Biggest benefit would be it being available everywhere.
- Symbiote 6y ago
  I wrote a few ideas on this discussion a few days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23445116 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23445116
- slightwinder 6y ago
  You can just buy one for $20-60 at amazon or your prefered chinese importer. DIY will always be more expensiv than that.
RBerenguel 6y ago
I have a Gergo and a Ginni. A fan of the Gergo (the Ginni is fun), if I needed to go back to an office I’d get a second one
MivLives 6y ago
I just got the last few parts to build a Gergo. I wish I had gotten choc switches for it, but maybe if I ever build another one.
p0llard 6y ago
Non-mobile link: https://blog.gboards.ca/2020/01/weird-keyboards-programmable-keyboards.html https://blog.gboards.ca/2020/01/weird-keyboards-programmable...
codetrotter 6y ago
I've been using the Dvorak keyboard layout since 2009/2010. Back then I had a TypeMatrix 2030 USB. I stuck with TypeMatrix most of the time between then and... December 2017! In December 2017, I bought an ErgoDox EZ Shine. I immediatelly created a custom layout for my ErgoDox EZ Shine. A layout that was heavily inspired by the key placement on my previous keyboard, the TypeMatrix 2030 USB. Over time I’ve made some small adjustments to the layout, occasionally removing bindings that have been sitting unused. Here is my layout in its current form: https://configure.ergodox-ez.com/ergodox-ez/layouts/PBKjJ/zbdla/0 https://configure.ergodox-ez.com/ergodox-ez/layouts/PBKjJ/zb... I found the featured article interesting. I agree that the ErgoDox EZ is a bit bigger than is probably necessary, and as a consequence of that, some of the keys are not so easy to reach. I like the two-button chording idea a lot. And I think the smaller keyboard size that his ideas make possible seem quite appealing. At my desk at home I use the ErgoDox EZ always, but when I am on the go I often use the builtin keyboard of my MacBook Air even when I have the ErgoDox EZ with me in my backpack or luggage. What I would love to see some day is someone create a customized MacBook Air aluminum casing that would put something like the programable keyboard of the OP into it in place of the keyboard that Apple is shipping. And maybe make said custom keyboard embedding adjustable in multiple directions and angles if possible. Would maybe be difficult, but that to me would be the dream.
- antigirl 6y ago
  I think you could do a lot more with your thumb clusters. My layout looks like a messy beast compared to yours I agree about the keys being unreachable. https://configure.ergodox-ez.com/ergodox-ez/layouts/RlxdW/latest/1 https://configure.ergodox-ez.com/ergodox-ez/layouts/RlxdW/la...
- alin23 6y ago
  An alternative to your last sentence seems to be the Nuphy mechanical keyboard: https://nuphy.com/ https://nuphy.com/ It is nowhere as elegant as actually replacing the builtin keyboard, it just sits on top of it using magnets. But it is a product that actually exists.
  - codetrotter 6y ago
lawn 6y ago
My Gergoplex got shipped recently and I'm excited to try it out. I'm especially interested in trying out how the chording might work out.
- ecliptik 6y ago
  I've had a GergoPlex for a couple months now and love it. It takes some getting use to of course, but I frequently find myself trying to chord on my 60% board and wish I had QMK on it so I could mirror the layouts. Few tips you may find useful, - Practice with it daily. My typing on it the first week was really bad, but with a couple hours a day my WPM went up and now with alphanumerics it's quick. I also do "learn to type" websites to use the lessons to cover the entire board and force myself to do things I'm not doing as frequently day-to-day. - Print out a copy of the keyboard layout (https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rRS_TOYuIQQ/XhRERox3moI/AAAAAAABEB0/uTThutO8H9o8HK-sdNgzOKC1-gIdyEFoACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/Capture.png https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rRS_TOYuIQQ/XhRERox3moI/AAAAAAABE...) and annotate it as you make changes to the QMK layout. I keep it on the desk and use it for reference when learning where the characters are and frequently update it when I change it to better suit my personal layout. There's also http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/ http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/ to generate one. - Use lighter switches if you can. They work better for chording, and take some getting use too, but your typing speed will increase and they work out much better on a smaller board like this. The only negative I have with the board, since it's so low-profile and light is that it will move a bit and sometimes the board will rock. You can get the gHeavy case for this, but it's quite expensive. I'm waiting for the day that the GergoPlex sleeve is available which should help with the overall stability of the board, https://www.hidtech.ca/?product=gergoplex-sleeve https://www.hidtech.ca/?product=gergoplex-sleeve.
  - antigirl 6y ago
    I made this app for myself to help me learn my ergodox layout. It’s an always on, on top app. One could easily repurpose it for their keyboard https://github.com/farzd/keydox https://github.com/farzd/keydox
    - 6y ago
easygenes 6y ago
Wow! I got an original Kinesis Advantage about 12 years ago and loved everything but how bulky it is. I even wrote to them asking if they were going to release a slimmer one at some point. This custom world is new to me though and has me thinking about flex PCBs and 3D printing to get that Kinesis curve feel with exactly my own layout preference... exciting!
- ianhowson 6y ago
  Google 'dactyl' and 'dactyl manuform'. It's relatively cheap to get the cases 3D printed. Most people are hand-wiring the switches rather than trying to make flex PCBs.
  - lordofgibbons 6y ago
    I've been looking into getting the Dactyl Manuform for a few months now, but haven't found any experience reports about it. Do you use it, and recommend it?
    - ianhowson 6y ago
      Not yet -- ask me in two weeks! I found enough reports on Reddit that I figured it was worth trying, and I used a Kinesis Advantage for a long time. If you haven't used a Kinesis, I would recommend buying or borrowing one first. The price of a KA vs. a from-scratch Dactyl [Manuform] is similar, but the KA doesn't need assembly and is easy to resell if you don't like it. At this point I have a ton of keyboard parts lying around, I've used QMK a lot, and I have strong preferences for certain switches (which I already own), so the cost is just the 3D prints and assembly time (also low, because I've built a few keyboards from scratch before.)
    - lemper 6y ago
      I've been using it for almost two years. It's good enough for me, though I only use top two thumb keys on each hand. it costed me 70 usd to build that keyboard (time included).
  - easygenes 6y ago
rudolph9 6y ago
https://shop.keyboard.io/ https://shop.keyboard.io/ Makes great stuff! I have serial number: 32 of their Model 1 that I purchased on kick started years ago. The firmware is all open source and audrino too so hack away!
- new_realist 6y ago
  These are great; I second this. I can’t wait for the Model 100.
- slohr 6y ago
  Yep, these are awesome! I'm typing on #82 of the first model01 run and it's the first keyboard I can mash on all day without fatigue. I've tried a happy hacker keyboard a maltron, one of the microsoft ergo keyboards, several corsairs and the model01 has bested them all from my experience. For me the killer app was being able to remap the large function buttons (under the meaty part of both thumbs) to the enter and shift keys. Those changes coupled with having the escape key activated with an index finger seriously changed my life. From what I'm reading in the other comments there are other keyboards that might allow the same type of mods but I honestly stopped looking once I got this one. Yeah, I'm a total fanboy, and it should be said that there are folks who were not able to get used to the layout, but for me it was worth the investment.
new_realist 6y ago
My ideal would be a Dactyl with palm buttons.
IggleSniggle 6y ago
Ever since I was a teenager I've wanted a one-handed keyboard that I could use while walking around. Of course, at the time, I also had visions of a battery-powered desktop in a backpack and a head-mounted display. I recall the FrogPad and other chording keyboards that I can't recall the name of, especially one that had switched surrounding each finger giving 3 or 4 switches to each finger without moving the finger position. Anyway, even though I never got a google glass, the dream lives on. Except today the input interface that I would choose that's just out of reach is a subvocalization interface.
- _emacsomancer_ 6y ago
  'Twiddler' is presumably the other one you're thinking of.
  - ungamed 6y ago
    I tried using it with emacs, with hilarious results.. It is -much- harder than you'd think.
    - _emacsomancer_ 6y ago
      I've been gradually working on an emacs-centric layout for it: https://gitlab.com/emacsomancer/m-x-tabspace https://gitlab.com/emacsomancer/m-x-tabspace
    - 0_gravitas 6y ago
      It seems like it would lend itself better to the modal editing of neo/vi/m
  - IggleSniggle 6y ago
    It wasn't (I was remembering the DataHand), but the Twiddler looks like it's right up my alley!
    - _emacsomancer_ 6y ago
falcolas 6y ago
I feel like a bit of a weirdo here - I love having a full sized, standard layout keyboard. It makes me move my hands, which helps with RSI-type strains on my hands. It allows me to use the same muscle memory no matter what keyboard I find myself at (I currently have four, two of which are heavily used). And I can find any rarely-used key by touch. That said, I love the idea of a sub-30g actuation force for a key. More of those, switch companies! And I appreciate that more and more choices are available for people who aren’t me. :)
- cgriswald 6y ago
  I’m sort of in the same boat. I using “gaming” keyboards because I love the extra keys. I program them to do all kinds of things and don’t mind taking my hands off the home row if it means I can do something faster or without having to use the mouse. They always end up customized enough that my two main computers have to have the same keyboard or I get a little lost. I’d love something like a StreamDeck but I only use Windows for gaming and have transitioned away from Mac entirely.
- hazeii 6y ago
  No problem, by comparison the old-school weirdo's like full-size keyboards with F1-F10 on the left (compare hitting Control-F8 with the keys on the left compared to above the top row [0]). Really old-school weirdo's were not happy with switching the position of the Control/Caps key (Control-C was so much easier on a VT100). [0] https://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?t=17462 https://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?t=17462
- mondoman712 6y ago
  I'm not an expert, but from the small amount that I've read part of the theory behind these tiny keyboards is that its actually the extra movement that causes RSI, not the typing itself, so they accommodate keeping your hands in the same position at all times and only moving your fingers at most one key from the home row.
- nfoz 6y ago
  I'm pretty hype to try the Keychron K1: https://www.keychron.com/ https://www.keychron.com/ I think the "tenkeyless" layout is great: it's "full keyboard" size including the separated arrows block and correctly spaced F keys, it's just missing the numpad section that I rarely use. It's also the "chiclet" style keys like a laptop keyboard, but with "low profile" switches that I'm hoping will feel good but be less painful than full-on cherry/gaming switches. I grew up on Model-M's, I used to love hammering away, but I guess I'm one of the weirdos that grew to love the feel of chiclet, where I can tell if I've pressed a key but don't need to press it so hard. But most chiclet keyboards are too low-quality with not quite enough travel. Balancing act.
DenisM 6y ago
Wish I could have a Blackberry-style keyboard for my iPhone, just that I can have the entire screen to see what I just typed. Anyone?
- dddw 6y ago
  Someone tried to make a snap on keyboard for iPhone on kickstarter but got sued the bejezos by BlackBerry. Yesterday I sold my last Blackberry keyone running android. The're quiting for real this time.
  - SuperPaintMan 6y ago
    Eh, we'll see, I'm hoping we get some news in August after the TCL contract ends officially but I'm not holding my breath. I'm still dailying my Key2 and have a UniHertz Titan setup ready to go for when it dies. It's not perfect, but it beats typing on glass :)
verandaguy 6y ago
Just wish these shipped with MX-compatible switches. My best-feeling caps are MX, and there's not a whole lot out there that's compatible with these newfangled switches.
- SuperPaintMan 6y ago
  Some do, take a look at the Ready options for Gergo that can be built with 35g Kailh Box Pro Reds. For GergoPlex and a few others I went with Kailh Choc only due to sizing differnces in the caps, using a hybrid footprint means that chording is much harder (and seeing as vertical chording on MX caps is iffy at best, it makes sense).
SuperPaintMan 6y ago
A user tipped me off that this was re-posted again after it didn't get much traction last time. If you have any questions let me know and I'll try answering them :) Needless to say, it's been a few months since this was posted and I've doubled down on the usefulness of chords/combos and overloaded layouts with GergoPlex. Compared to the Gergo I was using before, the ergonomic gains are immense :) (And Mods, can you remove the mobile bit on the link?)
maccard 6y ago
For my windows desktop, I have a StreamDeck [0] plugged into it. It's a 15 key board, where each key is an LCD screen. It's designed for streamers (twitch/youtube), but has a few features that make it more general purpose. It can change layouts based on the active application, the actions can be bound to keypresses, and it has an SDK [1]. It's pretty neat (although the hardware feels cheap, and the SDK is pretty awful to use). I've been tempted recently to look into hardware like the Loupedeck CT [2] as a more "premium" alternative, (and I like the idea of using the the dials for strange axes - scrolling tabs in a web browser/samples in a sampling profiler) but their documentation is hidden, and it's almost 3x the price of the stream deck. [0] https://www.elgato.com/en/gaming/stream-deck https://www.elgato.com/en/gaming/stream-deck [1] https://developer.elgato.com/documentation/stream-deck/sdk/overview/ https://developer.elgato.com/documentation/stream-deck/sdk/o... [2] https://loupedeck.com/en/products/loupedeck-ct?skip=true https://loupedeck.com/en/products/loupedeck-ct?skip=true
siberianbear 6y ago
The first keyboard he referred to was the original IBM "clicky" keyboard (aka Buckling Spring keyboard) which is still available new. The right to manufacture it has been sold to a company called Unicomp. [1] They've ditched the legacy connector and now it will work with USB. I personally own one of these and I love it. It causes less carpel tunnel problems for me because the keys travel more and they don't bottom out quite abruptly. The only downside is that it is very noisy. If you can type at 80 wpm like me and you work in an open cube environment, you'll make your cube neighbors crazy. I no longer work in a shared office so nobody cares and I enjoy the clicky sound. [1] https://www.pckeyboard.com/ https://www.pckeyboard.com/
- ytjohn 6y ago
  I have two of the Unicomp EnduraPro and it's been my favorite keyboard for years. I'm one of probably 8 people in the world that like the Thinkpad's Trackpoint, and this keyboard gives you that. During normal operations, I don't have to move my hands off the keyboard. The company is also rather responsive. I once dumped a large cup of soda right onto the keyboard. It was out of warranty but they repaired it for a rather reasonable amount. More recently, I picked up the Ultimate Hacking Keyboard[1]. It was a bit of a gamble because it's a smaller keyboard making use of layers (mod, mouse, and function). However I adapted to it in pretty short order. On a full keyboard, you do end up moving your hands to the arrow keys or the function keys. On this keyboard, you almost never move your hands. It's got a nice tacticle feel and it's quieter than the model M. With the mouse layer, I can keep my hands on the home row almost as much as with the EnduraPro. There is a bit of awkwardness with the default keymap in vim. The Mod layer's arrow keys almost, but not quite, match up with vim's cursor movement keys, so I sometimes confuse my muscle memory (and vim) when bouncing in and out of insert mode. I should probably remap the arrow keys, but that's really my only complaint about it so far. [1]: https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/ https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/ I do have UHK's trackpoint and key cluster addons on preorder, just waiting on them to ship.
- timw4mail 6y ago
  Technically, the Model F introduced the switch type. The Model M did, however, introduce the standard 101 key layout.
lmilcin 6y ago
I am currently building an ultimate programmable keyboard. It will have 40% ortholinear layout but also an overpowered MCU (STM32L4 with lots of flash and memory) that will be able to run a complicated controller. The reason is I want steno at work where I can't have any custom software running. I want to be able to lug around small high quality mechanical keyboard that will have my entire input method programmed in with no need for external software. Also I am fed up solving problems even if I have access to OS. Not all software wants to play nice, etc. It will have sd card slot for additional storage for mappings, steno library, etc. Currently it is functional basic keyboard (ie. works as a normal USB HID keyboard, no extra features) on a prototype board. My next step is to design PCB, backplate and enclosure and have them manufactured. I do assembly myself. Once I have functional keyboard I will work on V2 that will have all the features I wanted. Possible extra features: - trackpoint (if I can find the part that will make it possible). I was thinking one in place where you normally have J so you don't have to move your hands at all to use your mouse. Mouse buttons would probably be programmed some way on left hand. - small OLED display for statuses, maybe for editing steno dictionary, etc. - RGB LED under each key to be used from the controller for whatever reason (not just for nice patterns but for actual useful stuff).
- guessbest 6y ago
  This is the best idea I have read in ages, "the computer is an extension of my keyboard". If the keyboard had an onboard macro editor, it would be perfect.
  - lmilcin 6y ago
    Macro editor is a simple feature. Unless you mean uLisp running on the keyboard... (http://www.ulisp.com/show?29ST http://www.ulisp.com/show?29ST)
    - guessbest 6y ago
      An embedded forth system sounds better as the user's knowledge base would have to be encoded in such as way it would be extensible and memorable. A computer keyboards job in this case wouldn't be the end usage but a slave process to entering data in the host process for freeing up cognitive space for the user to delve in to their problem set. Some sort of mucking together of prolog and forth is what I'd imagine, a simple enough programmable stack builder constrained to the user's expressive capabilities while focusing on making new rules to constrain the host computer's usage. The role of the keyboard is to prevent the main computer from deviating from the user's focus in the problem solving session of input and retrieval (I/O).
grawprog 6y ago
I picked up an interesting keyboard for $2 at the thrift shop the other day. https://www.prehkeytec.com/products/programmable-keyboards/mci-3100/ https://www.prehkeytec.com/products/programmable-keyboards/m... It's a highly programmable and customizable keyboard with a built in magnetic stripe reader. It's got a bunch of extra buttons, several keysets that can be easily saved and swapped. It might be originally a POS keyboard, but it makes a damn fine programming/gaming keyboard. I'm pretty sure unless you pick it up used, you'll have trouble getting one though. they won't sell it unless you're a commercial entity. If you ever see one of these in a thrift shop or something, grab it up, it's worth it.
DavidVoid 6y ago
I really gotta get myself a Georgi and properly learn stenography some day (or rather, some year). You can only get so far by using Plover on a keyboard without N-key rollover after all. I really like my HHKB, but I feel like a more ergonomic chording keyboard (like the Georgi) will be beneficial for my fingers and hands in the long run.
indigo945 6y ago
Unrelated thought: I just find it astonishing that it's 2020, we have plug-and-play hardware of every kind, I can wirelessly connect my phone to my car and it just works, and yet every time I reinstall an operating system I have to manually tell it which symbols are printed on my keyboard.
- slightwinder 6y ago
  Technically, you are not telling it what symbols are printed on the keyboard, but which symbols you prefer to type. Because you can setup different symbols than those printed, which many people make use of. But sure, having some default-value returned by the keyboard would be sweet, but probabvly also more problematic than helpful.
nqzero 6y ago
off-topic: dark mode makes me physically ill. is there a way in css to disable it for this page (i've unsuccessfully tried some obvious things with color and background, but i'm a backend dev and my FE/css is out of date)
- badtuple 6y ago
  This JS snippet brute forces everything to have a white background and black text. Should be able to paste it into your browser's dev console. var el = document.querySelectorAll('*'); for(var i=0;i<el.length;i++){ el[i].style.backgroundColor = '#FFF'; el[i].style.color = '#000'; } If you don't mind sharing, why does it make you physically ill? I've heard of people not liking it, but this is the first I've heard of an actual medical issue and I'd like to be aware of it when designing things.
  - nqzero 6y ago
    funny - i never thought about using js, even though when i'm doing webapps, that's how i generate all my html and css. thanks ! and looks like google's official high-contrast extension will do this (i've been wary of using random extensions that do this since they get access to everything) it's a form of photosensitivity, maybe similar to [this form of epilepsy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosensitive_epilepsy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosensitive_epilepsy). i also don't do great with 3D movies and if I don't have something concrete to focus on ~50 feet in front of me, I'm prone to motion sickness) while i'm reading the dark mode text i'm generally ok, but when i look away i get scrolling almost-horizontal light-and-dark bars in my vision and extreme nausea for a few minutes, milder auras, cramping and nausea for several hours and don't feel "myself" for about a day. i've never been in a situation where it happened and I couldn't walk away (i'll either lay down or sit facing a blank wall) but I'm guessing I'd get what doctors diagnose as a concussion (i've had several triggered by similar things without evidence of impact) i haven't gotten a medical diagnosis, but assume it's a combo of being capable of extreme focus (both intellectual and athletic) and being prone to electrolyte imbalance on my best days, I can handle dark mode for a few minutes without symptoms. and over time I've had more and more "best" days (mostly through managing electrolytes) so possible that i'll eventually not have to worry about it I appreciate both the query and the intent to act on the info :) Not only for this particular set of symptoms, but more generally - visual designers have wide audiences and it must make for an interesting and at times frustrating set of trade-offs
disabled 6y ago
I used to be a specialized keyboard fanatic. Ultimately, what cured me of this "need" was learning how to type in braille code, which uses 8 keys plus a spacebar. Thanks to accessibility advancements, and especially on mobile devices, I can carry around a mini braille display and efficiently control everything I could ever imagine to need, without specialized keys. But, it requires learning a certain combination of keys (as in commands) to do what you want. I can also efficiently take notes in very advanced math using a braille display plus a Raspberry Pi (see: http://liblouis.org/ http://liblouis.org/), that none of my friends can do efficiently, digitally. There is a really cool braille notetaker that is integrated with Android, that allows for taking notes in various braille codes (such as for math), but it is obscenely expensive, and is not as well supported as the liblouis package. See: https://store.humanware.com/hus/blindness-braillenote-touch-plus-32.html https://store.humanware.com/hus/blindness-braillenote-touch-... For the sighted (I am sighted, although I have a functional visual impairment which affects my ability to read standard text), probably the way to go is to use a BraillePen: http://braillepen.com/braillepens/ http://braillepen.com/braillepens/ You do need an actual refreshable braille display to do this without audio feedback (via headphones in public). Usually you have to make a compromise between the amount of braille cells and portability. My usual go to device is the HIMS Braille Edge 40. On the go, I use a Handy Tech Actilino, which has 16 cells and is ergonomic and has an auto-scroll reading feature.
galkk 6y ago
I'm interested in ErgoDox, but find it suspicious that the keyboard doesn't have dedicated row with functional keys (F1-F12). If there are owners - what's your approach? Some modifier keys?
- roganartu 6y ago
  I got an ErgoDox about 6 months ago, and yeah that's basically how it's done. You can see my current config here: https://configure.ergodox-ez.com/ergodox-ez/layouts/Pprz9/latest/0 https://configure.ergodox-ez.com/ergodox-ez/layouts/Pprz9/la... I don't really use layers outside 0-1 normally, which is why I moved the layer1 modifier to the RHS thumb for easier access.
- yencabulator 6y ago
  Pretty much any keyboard without dedicated function keys, you press Fn+number. ErgoDox has similar, except fully configurable. I believe I have F11 and F12 on somemodifier+shift+1 and 2, too. (I personally use function keys so rarely I can't even remember how to type them on my ErgoDox.)

138 points by ecliptik 6y ago

Been using a Gergo for well over a year now. I think I might own the first one that was made with the low-profile Kailh Choc switches. I can't imagine going back to anything else. The low profile, combined with custom key layout (workman, modifiers on homerows, etc) has done wonders for my RSI. Of course, tho "wow, what's that"-factor is also fun.

eeh 6y ago
Modifiers on home row has been the killer feature for me. Do you have all four modifies on each side?

melling 6y ago

"But the ErgoDox suffers on massive flaw, the thumb cluster is horrible for the outer thumb keys, half the buttons on the cluster are unusable/reachable and it's got this giant top." Never used an ErgoDox. How do others find the thumb cluster?

lawn 6y ago
I do find it horrible. I can hit one key comfortably and another one is usable. The rest are just superfluous.
Asooka 6y ago
He's right that the outer keys are hard to reach, but it's not a problem for me - I just put the least used keys there, e.g. insert, layer 3, right super, sysrq, and so on.
BubRoss 6y ago
It isn't that bad.
stonecharioteer 6y ago
I don't use an ergodox but know someone who swears by it. I use a Lily58 and a Corne. Both run with the idea. I have always noticed that I used only my left thumb for space on a regular 104 keyboard. So my right thumb was mostly useless. With a thumb cluster on either side I am forced to use both thumbs. I even assign keys I use a lot to the thumb cluster, especially the layer modifier. I am fairly adept at the split layout now, and refuse to use a 104 keyboard anymore.
IronBacon 6y ago
I have one that's collecting dust. I should probably try with sculpted keycaps instead of the DSA I've right now (i.e. all keys with the same profile).
- smichel17 6y ago
  I got the sculpted caps, and while I'm not sure how much difference they make, I am confident that the lack of labels has made me more inclined to experiment with layout tweaks (I view this as a good thing).
sethammons 6y ago
I have the EZ. I find it too different to use. It now sits in a closet because the 25% return fee is steep. I’ve always liked the Microsoft Ergo 4000. I got a cloudnine (mechanical, very similar to the 4000) and the EZ at the same time. I could type immediately on the cloudnine (~70wpm). The EZ was just too different. I couldn’t even type at half-speed. The vertical key layout and the different placement of all the “side keys” - I was not, and continue to not be, willing to reduce my typing speed so dramatically when I had the cloudnine that I could transfer two decades of typing experience to.
lorenzfx 6y ago
I can easily hit the bottom parts of every row, but I have pretty big hands.
commanderkeen08 6y ago
They’re not supposed to be reachable. But there’s a slight adjustment needed to reach them for sure. The outer thumbs work great for things like shift and delete. My right outer thumb is right shift. When I need to shift something on my left side, my right hand is always free to make that slight adjustment. It feels much better than having put all that on my weakest finger, the pinky. The outer outer keys are absolutely not meant to be reachable. They’re macro keys for me (global microphone mute switch).
CarVac 6y ago
I find the ErgoDox thumb clusters unreachably far. I prefer the Mitosis key arrangement with the thumb clusters directly underneath the alphas.
andrewnc 6y ago
I use one exclusively. I was a pianist at one point in my life. The ErgoDox is a game changer for my wrists and pinkies. I got back up to speed in a week. It's awesome for me.
eeh 6y ago
I use an Ergodox. I have long thumbs but can only comfortably reach 2 (3?) of the 6 buttons in the thumb cluster. The whole point of the Ergodox for me was to avoid uncomfortable movements, so I don't use those keys. I'm happy with the Ergodox, but if I ever need to replace it, I'll be looking at something with a reduced key set such as the Gergo.
- rgharris 6y ago
  I’m in the same situation. I have large hands but only use 2 thumb buttons per side and also use layers to avoid the top row of the keyboard altogether. I love the Ergodox but prefer to limit my reach for better ergonomics.
garrettdimon 6y ago
I don’t have any trouble with the three bottom thumb keys in the cluster, but the top three aren’t very useful. I’ve remapped them to media or macro shortcuts that I don’t use while typing.
pedrovhb 6y ago
I use an ErgoDox EZ exclusively. I have fairly big hands and can comfortably hit 3 of the thumb keys on each side and regularly use them. The other 3 aren't really reachable in a typing "stance" but can be used for functionality that is unrelated to typing but is useful to have dedicated keys for; for instance, I have one that is set to Win + Shift + Q which closes the currently active window in my i3wm setup, and a couple others I use for setting and going to code bookmarks in PyCharm. Here's my current layout: https://configure.ergodox-ez.com/ergodox-ez/layouts/7JV4o/latest/0 https://configure.ergodox-ez.com/ergodox-ez/layouts/7JV4o/la...
dharmab 6y ago
I find the thumb clusters perfectly sized and positioned. I can easily hit the bottom four keys on each cluster and can reach up to the top two without issues. I suspect this depends strongly on the size and flexibility of your hands.
- gpm 6y ago
  Would you say you have big hands? Small hands? Normal sized hands?
- rgharris 6y ago
  I have fairly large hands and could hit all of the thumb keys. But I only use 2 so that I don’t have any reach or large movements when typing. I agree that it depends on hand size and your preference. Regardless, it has been an awesome keyboard for me due to customizing layout/layers.
erikerikson 6y ago
That's accurate in my experience. I adjust my hands to use those which is fine if not optimal. I also find thumbs a little clumsy, particularly after a stretch to outer keys so multiple keys activate sometimes. My enter is center and backspace to it's right so I'll often delete the last character before sending chat. The bottom-outer keys tend to be really awkward to use also. I tried the Kinesis A. 2 before this and prefer ErgoDox but miss the curved keywells to reduce travel and really want more keys as I feel resistant to the layers thing. The Dactyl was attractive but I haven't had capacity for this kind of project for some time.
ptomato 6y ago
I found the thumb cluster borderline unusable on the Ergodox. The Keyboardio Model 01, which is my daily driver now, has a somewhat similar layout but excellent positioning on the thumb cluster and modifier button.
gtaylor 6y ago
I've got an ErgoDox at home and a Kinesis Advantage II at work. I find the ErgoDox to be more sensible for light gaming (compared to the Kinesis), but the thumb cluster on the Kinesis is way easier (for me) to reach and navigate. I've mostly adapted to the ErgoDox thumb cluster at this point, but prefer to do longer bouts of typing or coding on the Kinesis. The ErgoDex is more versatile but less comfortable.
- badlucklottery 6y ago
  >The ErgoDex is more versatile but less comfortable. This has been my experience as well. I think the ErgoDex is likely more comfortable for people with smaller hands though. But the Kinesis feels about perfect for me. I have a Logitech T650 attached to the center with double-sided tape so it's also good for lap-typing when I need it.
phaus 6y ago
I can comfortably reach 3 keys with each hand. Its awesome. I bind stuff that isn't really used much during normal typing to the remaining 3 thumb keys. I would never go back to a keyboard without a thumb cluster after using this. The Keyboardio is a similar idea, with the drawback IMO that its not ortholinear, but it has a better thumb cluster. The Dactyl Manuform is another great option. The shape of it makes it easier to reach all 6 thumb cluster keys.

Abishek_Muthian 6y ago

Is there open designs available for inexpensive DIY one hand keyboard? The accessibility keyboards are prohibitively expensive[1]. [1]https://needgap.com/problems/96-one-hand-keyboard-keyboard-accessibility https://needgap.com/problems/96-one-hand-keyboard-keyboard-a...

stonecharioteer 6y ago
You could just get a corne and set up only one hand. Would have to play a lot with layers if you want all keys though.
lawn 6y ago
Maybe a dactyl manuform would be good? (Google it). You can 3D print only one half and hand-wire the rest yourself.
Luc 6y ago
Not what you're asking but used one-handed Maltron keyboards can often be had for little money on ebay UK. There's one for 45 Pounds at the moment. Bit clunky and creaky though. Personally I'd get a Kinesis Advantage with a footswitch. Use one half of they keyboard as is, and the footswitch to change the layout.
ZeroGravitas 6y ago
http://www.aboutonehandtyping.com/howto.html http://www.aboutonehandtyping.com/howto.html One cheap alternative is to learn how to type with one hand on a standard qwerty. Biggest benefit would be it being available everywhere.
Symbiote 6y ago
I wrote a few ideas on this discussion a few days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23445116 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23445116
slightwinder 6y ago
You can just buy one for $20-60 at amazon or your prefered chinese importer. DIY will always be more expensiv than that.

RBerenguel 6y ago

I have a Gergo and a Ginni. A fan of the Gergo (the Ginni is fun), if I needed to go back to an office I’d get a second one

MivLives 6y ago

I just got the last few parts to build a Gergo. I wish I had gotten choc switches for it, but maybe if I ever build another one.

p0llard 6y ago

Non-mobile link: https://blog.gboards.ca/2020/01/weird-keyboards-programmable-keyboards.html https://blog.gboards.ca/2020/01/weird-keyboards-programmable...

codetrotter 6y ago

I've been using the Dvorak keyboard layout since 2009/2010. Back then I had a TypeMatrix 2030 USB. I stuck with TypeMatrix most of the time between then and... December 2017! In December 2017, I bought an ErgoDox EZ Shine. I immediatelly created a custom layout for my ErgoDox EZ Shine. A layout that was heavily inspired by the key placement on my previous keyboard, the TypeMatrix 2030 USB. Over time I’ve made some small adjustments to the layout, occasionally removing bindings that have been sitting unused. Here is my layout in its current form: https://configure.ergodox-ez.com/ergodox-ez/layouts/PBKjJ/zbdla/0 https://configure.ergodox-ez.com/ergodox-ez/layouts/PBKjJ/zb... I found the featured article interesting. I agree that the ErgoDox EZ is a bit bigger than is probably necessary, and as a consequence of that, some of the keys are not so easy to reach. I like the two-button chording idea a lot. And I think the smaller keyboard size that his ideas make possible seem quite appealing. At my desk at home I use the ErgoDox EZ always, but when I am on the go I often use the builtin keyboard of my MacBook Air even when I have the ErgoDox EZ with me in my backpack or luggage. What I would love to see some day is someone create a customized MacBook Air aluminum casing that would put something like the programable keyboard of the OP into it in place of the keyboard that Apple is shipping. And maybe make said custom keyboard embedding adjustable in multiple directions and angles if possible. Would maybe be difficult, but that to me would be the dream.

antigirl 6y ago
I think you could do a lot more with your thumb clusters. My layout looks like a messy beast compared to yours I agree about the keys being unreachable. https://configure.ergodox-ez.com/ergodox-ez/layouts/RlxdW/latest/1 https://configure.ergodox-ez.com/ergodox-ez/layouts/RlxdW/la...
alin23 6y ago
An alternative to your last sentence seems to be the Nuphy mechanical keyboard: https://nuphy.com/ https://nuphy.com/ It is nowhere as elegant as actually replacing the builtin keyboard, it just sits on top of it using magnets. But it is a product that actually exists.
- codetrotter 6y ago

lawn 6y ago

My Gergoplex got shipped recently and I'm excited to try it out. I'm especially interested in trying out how the chording might work out.

ecliptik 6y ago
I've had a GergoPlex for a couple months now and love it. It takes some getting use to of course, but I frequently find myself trying to chord on my 60% board and wish I had QMK on it so I could mirror the layouts. Few tips you may find useful, - Practice with it daily. My typing on it the first week was really bad, but with a couple hours a day my WPM went up and now with alphanumerics it's quick. I also do "learn to type" websites to use the lessons to cover the entire board and force myself to do things I'm not doing as frequently day-to-day. - Print out a copy of the keyboard layout (https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rRS_TOYuIQQ/XhRERox3moI/AAAAAAABEB0/uTThutO8H9o8HK-sdNgzOKC1-gIdyEFoACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/Capture.png https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rRS_TOYuIQQ/XhRERox3moI/AAAAAAABE...) and annotate it as you make changes to the QMK layout. I keep it on the desk and use it for reference when learning where the characters are and frequently update it when I change it to better suit my personal layout. There's also http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/ http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/ to generate one. - Use lighter switches if you can. They work better for chording, and take some getting use too, but your typing speed will increase and they work out much better on a smaller board like this. The only negative I have with the board, since it's so low-profile and light is that it will move a bit and sometimes the board will rock. You can get the gHeavy case for this, but it's quite expensive. I'm waiting for the day that the GergoPlex sleeve is available which should help with the overall stability of the board, https://www.hidtech.ca/?product=gergoplex-sleeve https://www.hidtech.ca/?product=gergoplex-sleeve.
- antigirl 6y ago
  I made this app for myself to help me learn my ergodox layout. It’s an always on, on top app. One could easily repurpose it for their keyboard https://github.com/farzd/keydox https://github.com/farzd/keydox
  - 6y ago

easygenes 6y ago

Wow! I got an original Kinesis Advantage about 12 years ago and loved everything but how bulky it is. I even wrote to them asking if they were going to release a slimmer one at some point. This custom world is new to me though and has me thinking about flex PCBs and 3D printing to get that Kinesis curve feel with exactly my own layout preference... exciting!

ianhowson 6y ago
Google 'dactyl' and 'dactyl manuform'. It's relatively cheap to get the cases 3D printed. Most people are hand-wiring the switches rather than trying to make flex PCBs.
- lordofgibbons 6y ago
  I've been looking into getting the Dactyl Manuform for a few months now, but haven't found any experience reports about it. Do you use it, and recommend it?
  - ianhowson 6y ago
    Not yet -- ask me in two weeks! I found enough reports on Reddit that I figured it was worth trying, and I used a Kinesis Advantage for a long time. If you haven't used a Kinesis, I would recommend buying or borrowing one first. The price of a KA vs. a from-scratch Dactyl [Manuform] is similar, but the KA doesn't need assembly and is easy to resell if you don't like it. At this point I have a ton of keyboard parts lying around, I've used QMK a lot, and I have strong preferences for certain switches (which I already own), so the cost is just the 3D prints and assembly time (also low, because I've built a few keyboards from scratch before.)
  - lemper 6y ago
    I've been using it for almost two years. It's good enough for me, though I only use top two thumb keys on each hand. it costed me 70 usd to build that keyboard (time included).
- easygenes 6y ago

rudolph9 6y ago

https://shop.keyboard.io/ https://shop.keyboard.io/ Makes great stuff! I have serial number: 32 of their Model 1 that I purchased on kick started years ago. The firmware is all open source and audrino too so hack away!

new_realist 6y ago
These are great; I second this. I can’t wait for the Model 100.
slohr 6y ago
Yep, these are awesome! I'm typing on #82 of the first model01 run and it's the first keyboard I can mash on all day without fatigue. I've tried a happy hacker keyboard a maltron, one of the microsoft ergo keyboards, several corsairs and the model01 has bested them all from my experience. For me the killer app was being able to remap the large function buttons (under the meaty part of both thumbs) to the enter and shift keys. Those changes coupled with having the escape key activated with an index finger seriously changed my life. From what I'm reading in the other comments there are other keyboards that might allow the same type of mods but I honestly stopped looking once I got this one. Yeah, I'm a total fanboy, and it should be said that there are folks who were not able to get used to the layout, but for me it was worth the investment.

new_realist 6y ago

My ideal would be a Dactyl with palm buttons.

IggleSniggle 6y ago

Ever since I was a teenager I've wanted a one-handed keyboard that I could use while walking around. Of course, at the time, I also had visions of a battery-powered desktop in a backpack and a head-mounted display. I recall the FrogPad and other chording keyboards that I can't recall the name of, especially one that had switched surrounding each finger giving 3 or 4 switches to each finger without moving the finger position. Anyway, even though I never got a google glass, the dream lives on. Except today the input interface that I would choose that's just out of reach is a subvocalization interface.

_emacsomancer_ 6y ago
'Twiddler' is presumably the other one you're thinking of.
- ungamed 6y ago
  I tried using it with emacs, with hilarious results.. It is -much- harder than you'd think.
  - _emacsomancer_ 6y ago
    I've been gradually working on an emacs-centric layout for it: https://gitlab.com/emacsomancer/m-x-tabspace https://gitlab.com/emacsomancer/m-x-tabspace
  - 0_gravitas 6y ago
    It seems like it would lend itself better to the modal editing of neo/vi/m
- IggleSniggle 6y ago
  It wasn't (I was remembering the DataHand), but the Twiddler looks like it's right up my alley!
  - _emacsomancer_ 6y ago

falcolas 6y ago

I feel like a bit of a weirdo here - I love having a full sized, standard layout keyboard. It makes me move my hands, which helps with RSI-type strains on my hands. It allows me to use the same muscle memory no matter what keyboard I find myself at (I currently have four, two of which are heavily used). And I can find any rarely-used key by touch. That said, I love the idea of a sub-30g actuation force for a key. More of those, switch companies! And I appreciate that more and more choices are available for people who aren’t me. :)

cgriswald 6y ago
I’m sort of in the same boat. I using “gaming” keyboards because I love the extra keys. I program them to do all kinds of things and don’t mind taking my hands off the home row if it means I can do something faster or without having to use the mouse. They always end up customized enough that my two main computers have to have the same keyboard or I get a little lost. I’d love something like a StreamDeck but I only use Windows for gaming and have transitioned away from Mac entirely.
hazeii 6y ago
No problem, by comparison the old-school weirdo's like full-size keyboards with F1-F10 on the left (compare hitting Control-F8 with the keys on the left compared to above the top row [0]). Really old-school weirdo's were not happy with switching the position of the Control/Caps key (Control-C was so much easier on a VT100). [0] https://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?t=17462 https://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?t=17462
mondoman712 6y ago
I'm not an expert, but from the small amount that I've read part of the theory behind these tiny keyboards is that its actually the extra movement that causes RSI, not the typing itself, so they accommodate keeping your hands in the same position at all times and only moving your fingers at most one key from the home row.
nfoz 6y ago
I'm pretty hype to try the Keychron K1: https://www.keychron.com/ https://www.keychron.com/ I think the "tenkeyless" layout is great: it's "full keyboard" size including the separated arrows block and correctly spaced F keys, it's just missing the numpad section that I rarely use. It's also the "chiclet" style keys like a laptop keyboard, but with "low profile" switches that I'm hoping will feel good but be less painful than full-on cherry/gaming switches. I grew up on Model-M's, I used to love hammering away, but I guess I'm one of the weirdos that grew to love the feel of chiclet, where I can tell if I've pressed a key but don't need to press it so hard. But most chiclet keyboards are too low-quality with not quite enough travel. Balancing act.

DenisM 6y ago

Wish I could have a Blackberry-style keyboard for my iPhone, just that I can have the entire screen to see what I just typed. Anyone?

dddw 6y ago
Someone tried to make a snap on keyboard for iPhone on kickstarter but got sued the bejezos by BlackBerry. Yesterday I sold my last Blackberry keyone running android. The're quiting for real this time.
- SuperPaintMan 6y ago
  Eh, we'll see, I'm hoping we get some news in August after the TCL contract ends officially but I'm not holding my breath. I'm still dailying my Key2 and have a UniHertz Titan setup ready to go for when it dies. It's not perfect, but it beats typing on glass :)

verandaguy 6y ago

Just wish these shipped with MX-compatible switches. My best-feeling caps are MX, and there's not a whole lot out there that's compatible with these newfangled switches.

SuperPaintMan 6y ago
Some do, take a look at the Ready options for Gergo that can be built with 35g Kailh Box Pro Reds. For GergoPlex and a few others I went with Kailh Choc only due to sizing differnces in the caps, using a hybrid footprint means that chording is much harder (and seeing as vertical chording on MX caps is iffy at best, it makes sense).

SuperPaintMan 6y ago

A user tipped me off that this was re-posted again after it didn't get much traction last time. If you have any questions let me know and I'll try answering them :) Needless to say, it's been a few months since this was posted and I've doubled down on the usefulness of chords/combos and overloaded layouts with GergoPlex. Compared to the Gergo I was using before, the ergonomic gains are immense :) (And Mods, can you remove the mobile bit on the link?)

maccard 6y ago

For my windows desktop, I have a StreamDeck [0] plugged into it. It's a 15 key board, where each key is an LCD screen. It's designed for streamers (twitch/youtube), but has a few features that make it more general purpose. It can change layouts based on the active application, the actions can be bound to keypresses, and it has an SDK [1]. It's pretty neat (although the hardware feels cheap, and the SDK is pretty awful to use). I've been tempted recently to look into hardware like the Loupedeck CT [2] as a more "premium" alternative, (and I like the idea of using the the dials for strange axes - scrolling tabs in a web browser/samples in a sampling profiler) but their documentation is hidden, and it's almost 3x the price of the stream deck. [0] https://www.elgato.com/en/gaming/stream-deck https://www.elgato.com/en/gaming/stream-deck [1] https://developer.elgato.com/documentation/stream-deck/sdk/overview/ https://developer.elgato.com/documentation/stream-deck/sdk/o... [2] https://loupedeck.com/en/products/loupedeck-ct?skip=true https://loupedeck.com/en/products/loupedeck-ct?skip=true

siberianbear 6y ago

The first keyboard he referred to was the original IBM "clicky" keyboard (aka Buckling Spring keyboard) which is still available new. The right to manufacture it has been sold to a company called Unicomp. [1] They've ditched the legacy connector and now it will work with USB. I personally own one of these and I love it. It causes less carpel tunnel problems for me because the keys travel more and they don't bottom out quite abruptly. The only downside is that it is very noisy. If you can type at 80 wpm like me and you work in an open cube environment, you'll make your cube neighbors crazy. I no longer work in a shared office so nobody cares and I enjoy the clicky sound. [1] https://www.pckeyboard.com/ https://www.pckeyboard.com/

ytjohn 6y ago
I have two of the Unicomp EnduraPro and it's been my favorite keyboard for years. I'm one of probably 8 people in the world that like the Thinkpad's Trackpoint, and this keyboard gives you that. During normal operations, I don't have to move my hands off the keyboard. The company is also rather responsive. I once dumped a large cup of soda right onto the keyboard. It was out of warranty but they repaired it for a rather reasonable amount. More recently, I picked up the Ultimate Hacking Keyboard[1]. It was a bit of a gamble because it's a smaller keyboard making use of layers (mod, mouse, and function). However I adapted to it in pretty short order. On a full keyboard, you do end up moving your hands to the arrow keys or the function keys. On this keyboard, you almost never move your hands. It's got a nice tacticle feel and it's quieter than the model M. With the mouse layer, I can keep my hands on the home row almost as much as with the EnduraPro. There is a bit of awkwardness with the default keymap in vim. The Mod layer's arrow keys almost, but not quite, match up with vim's cursor movement keys, so I sometimes confuse my muscle memory (and vim) when bouncing in and out of insert mode. I should probably remap the arrow keys, but that's really my only complaint about it so far. [1]: https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/ https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/ I do have UHK's trackpoint and key cluster addons on preorder, just waiting on them to ship.
timw4mail 6y ago
Technically, the Model F introduced the switch type. The Model M did, however, introduce the standard 101 key layout.

lmilcin 6y ago

I am currently building an ultimate programmable keyboard. It will have 40% ortholinear layout but also an overpowered MCU (STM32L4 with lots of flash and memory) that will be able to run a complicated controller. The reason is I want steno at work where I can't have any custom software running. I want to be able to lug around small high quality mechanical keyboard that will have my entire input method programmed in with no need for external software. Also I am fed up solving problems even if I have access to OS. Not all software wants to play nice, etc. It will have sd card slot for additional storage for mappings, steno library, etc. Currently it is functional basic keyboard (ie. works as a normal USB HID keyboard, no extra features) on a prototype board. My next step is to design PCB, backplate and enclosure and have them manufactured. I do assembly myself. Once I have functional keyboard I will work on V2 that will have all the features I wanted. Possible extra features: - trackpoint (if I can find the part that will make it possible). I was thinking one in place where you normally have J so you don't have to move your hands at all to use your mouse. Mouse buttons would probably be programmed some way on left hand. - small OLED display for statuses, maybe for editing steno dictionary, etc. - RGB LED under each key to be used from the controller for whatever reason (not just for nice patterns but for actual useful stuff).

guessbest 6y ago
This is the best idea I have read in ages, "the computer is an extension of my keyboard". If the keyboard had an onboard macro editor, it would be perfect.
- lmilcin 6y ago
  Macro editor is a simple feature. Unless you mean uLisp running on the keyboard... (http://www.ulisp.com/show?29ST http://www.ulisp.com/show?29ST)
  - guessbest 6y ago
    An embedded forth system sounds better as the user's knowledge base would have to be encoded in such as way it would be extensible and memorable. A computer keyboards job in this case wouldn't be the end usage but a slave process to entering data in the host process for freeing up cognitive space for the user to delve in to their problem set. Some sort of mucking together of prolog and forth is what I'd imagine, a simple enough programmable stack builder constrained to the user's expressive capabilities while focusing on making new rules to constrain the host computer's usage. The role of the keyboard is to prevent the main computer from deviating from the user's focus in the problem solving session of input and retrieval (I/O).

grawprog 6y ago

I picked up an interesting keyboard for $2 at the thrift shop the other day. https://www.prehkeytec.com/products/programmable-keyboards/mci-3100/ https://www.prehkeytec.com/products/programmable-keyboards/m... It's a highly programmable and customizable keyboard with a built in magnetic stripe reader. It's got a bunch of extra buttons, several keysets that can be easily saved and swapped. It might be originally a POS keyboard, but it makes a damn fine programming/gaming keyboard. I'm pretty sure unless you pick it up used, you'll have trouble getting one though. they won't sell it unless you're a commercial entity. If you ever see one of these in a thrift shop or something, grab it up, it's worth it.

DavidVoid 6y ago

I really gotta get myself a Georgi and properly learn stenography some day (or rather, some year). You can only get so far by using Plover on a keyboard without N-key rollover after all. I really like my HHKB, but I feel like a more ergonomic chording keyboard (like the Georgi) will be beneficial for my fingers and hands in the long run.

indigo945 6y ago

Unrelated thought: I just find it astonishing that it's 2020, we have plug-and-play hardware of every kind, I can wirelessly connect my phone to my car and it just works, and yet every time I reinstall an operating system I have to manually tell it which symbols are printed on my keyboard.

slightwinder 6y ago
Technically, you are not telling it what symbols are printed on the keyboard, but which symbols you prefer to type. Because you can setup different symbols than those printed, which many people make use of. But sure, having some default-value returned by the keyboard would be sweet, but probabvly also more problematic than helpful.

nqzero 6y ago

off-topic: dark mode makes me physically ill. is there a way in css to disable it for this page (i've unsuccessfully tried some obvious things with color and background, but i'm a backend dev and my FE/css is out of date)

badtuple 6y ago
This JS snippet brute forces everything to have a white background and black text. Should be able to paste it into your browser's dev console. var el = document.querySelectorAll('*'); for(var i=0;i<el.length;i++){ el[i].style.backgroundColor = '#FFF'; el[i].style.color = '#000'; } If you don't mind sharing, why does it make you physically ill? I've heard of people not liking it, but this is the first I've heard of an actual medical issue and I'd like to be aware of it when designing things.
- nqzero 6y ago
  funny - i never thought about using js, even though when i'm doing webapps, that's how i generate all my html and css. thanks ! and looks like google's official high-contrast extension will do this (i've been wary of using random extensions that do this since they get access to everything) it's a form of photosensitivity, maybe similar to [this form of epilepsy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosensitive_epilepsy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosensitive_epilepsy). i also don't do great with 3D movies and if I don't have something concrete to focus on ~50 feet in front of me, I'm prone to motion sickness) while i'm reading the dark mode text i'm generally ok, but when i look away i get scrolling almost-horizontal light-and-dark bars in my vision and extreme nausea for a few minutes, milder auras, cramping and nausea for several hours and don't feel "myself" for about a day. i've never been in a situation where it happened and I couldn't walk away (i'll either lay down or sit facing a blank wall) but I'm guessing I'd get what doctors diagnose as a concussion (i've had several triggered by similar things without evidence of impact) i haven't gotten a medical diagnosis, but assume it's a combo of being capable of extreme focus (both intellectual and athletic) and being prone to electrolyte imbalance on my best days, I can handle dark mode for a few minutes without symptoms. and over time I've had more and more "best" days (mostly through managing electrolytes) so possible that i'll eventually not have to worry about it I appreciate both the query and the intent to act on the info :) Not only for this particular set of symptoms, but more generally - visual designers have wide audiences and it must make for an interesting and at times frustrating set of trade-offs

disabled 6y ago

I used to be a specialized keyboard fanatic. Ultimately, what cured me of this "need" was learning how to type in braille code, which uses 8 keys plus a spacebar. Thanks to accessibility advancements, and especially on mobile devices, I can carry around a mini braille display and efficiently control everything I could ever imagine to need, without specialized keys. But, it requires learning a certain combination of keys (as in commands) to do what you want. I can also efficiently take notes in very advanced math using a braille display plus a Raspberry Pi (see: http://liblouis.org/ http://liblouis.org/), that none of my friends can do efficiently, digitally. There is a really cool braille notetaker that is integrated with Android, that allows for taking notes in various braille codes (such as for math), but it is obscenely expensive, and is not as well supported as the liblouis package. See: https://store.humanware.com/hus/blindness-braillenote-touch-plus-32.html https://store.humanware.com/hus/blindness-braillenote-touch-... For the sighted (I am sighted, although I have a functional visual impairment which affects my ability to read standard text), probably the way to go is to use a BraillePen: http://braillepen.com/braillepens/ http://braillepen.com/braillepens/ You do need an actual refreshable braille display to do this without audio feedback (via headphones in public). Usually you have to make a compromise between the amount of braille cells and portability. My usual go to device is the HIMS Braille Edge 40. On the go, I use a Handy Tech Actilino, which has 16 cells and is ergonomic and has an auto-scroll reading feature.

galkk 6y ago

I'm interested in ErgoDox, but find it suspicious that the keyboard doesn't have dedicated row with functional keys (F1-F12). If there are owners - what's your approach? Some modifier keys?

roganartu 6y ago
I got an ErgoDox about 6 months ago, and yeah that's basically how it's done. You can see my current config here: https://configure.ergodox-ez.com/ergodox-ez/layouts/Pprz9/latest/0 https://configure.ergodox-ez.com/ergodox-ez/layouts/Pprz9/la... I don't really use layers outside 0-1 normally, which is why I moved the layer1 modifier to the RHS thumb for easier access.
yencabulator 6y ago
Pretty much any keyboard without dedicated function keys, you press Fn+number. ErgoDox has similar, except fully configurable. I believe I have F11 and F12 on somemodifier+shift+1 and 2, too. (I personally use function keys so rarely I can't even remember how to type them on my ErgoDox.)