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While emotionally I agree with everything you said. Realistically I wonder what anybody who talks like this would do when somebody with a very official legal do

While emotionally I agree with everything you said. Realistically I wonder what anybody who talks like this would do when somebody with a very official legal document shows up on your doorstep. Its not as simple as it seems and most people want as little to do with problems like this. Who are we really mad at here? Zoom or the CCP for essentially forcing their will on helpless entities?

fossuser 6y ago
Yeah I think you’re right and honestly it’s hard to know what you’d do without being in that situation. I’d hope I’d refuse to rationalize it. I’d like to think that, but few people actually get that kind of character test for real (and even fewer pass it when they do). As far as Zoom and the CCP, I think it’s reasonable to be upset with both. Zoom isn’t helpless, they have agency and could choose to do the right thing. The citizens they're suppressing though have a lot less agency. It’s easy to do the right thing when it costs you nothing, the real test is when it’s hard.
- jcytong 6y ago
  Yes it's hard so it's up to the consumer because we also have agency - to stop and say no to businesses like that. It's the CCP playbook. To entice western companies with its lucrative market and at the same time continue its totalitarian regime and oppression. It becomes harder and harder for these companies to "do the right thing" as its influence and market grows. It'll continue to feed the "China way" as simply an alternative to the democracy. At some point, it becomes so big that it's impossible to reverse course. The reality is that when other companies see that Zoom can get by, it'd be harder for them say no because looking the other way when the bully is around becomes the norm.
monokh 6y ago
Zoom can either a) Keep their moral code and be happy in the idea that they will probably be cut off from that market (China) or b) Drop their morals, appease to the local laws as unjust as they may be in the hope that their business there continues. They chose the latter and still want to pretend they are doing both. That's a problem.

fossuser 6y ago

Yeah I think you’re right and honestly it’s hard to know what you’d do without being in that situation. I’d hope I’d refuse to rationalize it. I’d like to think that, but few people actually get that kind of character test for real (and even fewer pass it when they do). As far as Zoom and the CCP, I think it’s reasonable to be upset with both. Zoom isn’t helpless, they have agency and could choose to do the right thing. The citizens they're suppressing though have a lot less agency. It’s easy to do the right thing when it costs you nothing, the real test is when it’s hard.

jcytong 6y ago
Yes it's hard so it's up to the consumer because we also have agency - to stop and say no to businesses like that. It's the CCP playbook. To entice western companies with its lucrative market and at the same time continue its totalitarian regime and oppression. It becomes harder and harder for these companies to "do the right thing" as its influence and market grows. It'll continue to feed the "China way" as simply an alternative to the democracy. At some point, it becomes so big that it's impossible to reverse course. The reality is that when other companies see that Zoom can get by, it'd be harder for them say no because looking the other way when the bully is around becomes the norm.

monokh 6y ago

Zoom can either a) Keep their moral code and be happy in the idea that they will probably be cut off from that market (China) or b) Drop their morals, appease to the local laws as unjust as they may be in the hope that their business there continues. They chose the latter and still want to pretend they are doing both. That's a problem.