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And what about this other rumor? (Which is much more plausible). They could put everything T2, GPU and x86 in the same platform, bringing the cost down https:

And what about this other rumor? (Which is much more plausible). They could put everything T2, GPU and x86 in the same platform, bringing the cost down https://www.engadget.com/2020/02/07/apple-may-testing-amd-processors-internally/ https://www.engadget.com/2020/02/07/apple-may-testing-amd-pr...

wmf 6y ago
Not having x86 at all is even lower cost.
monocasa 6y ago
I've been saying this for a while, that a semi custom x86 (probably from AMD) makes way more sense. Those 8 Zen2 cores with 16GB with a very passable GPU in the next gen consoles show that it can be done for a remarkably low cost all things considered. Yes, Sony/Microsoft are probably taking a hit on those, and yes Apple would have to spend even more to get it running in a laptop form factor/TDP, but they also have MSRP headroom to make that happen with a decent margin. Even more out there idea (with literally zero proof, it's just a good idea, IMO): Apple buys Centaur, and gets an x86 licence. * Apple gets to have custom power efficient cores augmented by all the fabless firms they've acquired over the years. * Mac stays x86, so Intel wins a minor victory when the alternative was a major customer switching to ARM. * Intel wins a bigger victory because an x86 licence is effectively removed from products being on the open market. The great equalizer that is the end of Moore's law makes that licence sitting out there a long term existential risk for Intel. * Apple doesn't have a costly transition with the tail end of Moore's law meaning they don't have the same perf gains expected from the other transitions. * Apple also puts their hands on Centaur's newer inference accelerator IP. * Centaur's parent keeping them on life support gets a payout. Everyone wins except AMD (which is another win for Intel).
- philistine 6y ago
  Tim Cook has said it: We believe that we need to own and control the primary technologies behind the products we make. So it would make no sense to trade Intel's poor schedule and performance for AMD's uncertain future performance. And aren't all x86 licensee prevented from keeping that license if they are bought?
  - monocasa 6y ago
    > Tim Cook has said it: We believe that we need to own and control the primary technologies behind the products we make. Tim Cook was talking about context nearly a decade old. > So it would make no sense to trade Intel's poor schedule and performance for AMD's uncertain future performance. x86 is just going to become more of a commodity as time goes on. And currently, Zen 2 is hands down the best perf/watt combo currently. > And aren't all x86 licensee prevented from keeping that license if they are bought? That was a the rumor, but centaur has already been bought and kept it's license, so at a minimum there there's some fine print to that clause. And my experience with B2B is that clauses like that are ultimately a product of the circumstances from when they're written. If circumstances change, those clauses can change. The most indelible ink is the most likely to have new semantics later.

wmf 6y ago

Not having x86 at all is even lower cost.

monocasa 6y ago

I've been saying this for a while, that a semi custom x86 (probably from AMD) makes way more sense. Those 8 Zen2 cores with 16GB with a very passable GPU in the next gen consoles show that it can be done for a remarkably low cost all things considered. Yes, Sony/Microsoft are probably taking a hit on those, and yes Apple would have to spend even more to get it running in a laptop form factor/TDP, but they also have MSRP headroom to make that happen with a decent margin. Even more out there idea (with literally zero proof, it's just a good idea, IMO): Apple buys Centaur, and gets an x86 licence. * Apple gets to have custom power efficient cores augmented by all the fabless firms they've acquired over the years. * Mac stays x86, so Intel wins a minor victory when the alternative was a major customer switching to ARM. * Intel wins a bigger victory because an x86 licence is effectively removed from products being on the open market. The great equalizer that is the end of Moore's law makes that licence sitting out there a long term existential risk for Intel. * Apple doesn't have a costly transition with the tail end of Moore's law meaning they don't have the same perf gains expected from the other transitions. * Apple also puts their hands on Centaur's newer inference accelerator IP. * Centaur's parent keeping them on life support gets a payout. Everyone wins except AMD (which is another win for Intel).

philistine 6y ago
Tim Cook has said it: We believe that we need to own and control the primary technologies behind the products we make. So it would make no sense to trade Intel's poor schedule and performance for AMD's uncertain future performance. And aren't all x86 licensee prevented from keeping that license if they are bought?
- monocasa 6y ago
  > Tim Cook has said it: We believe that we need to own and control the primary technologies behind the products we make. Tim Cook was talking about context nearly a decade old. > So it would make no sense to trade Intel's poor schedule and performance for AMD's uncertain future performance. x86 is just going to become more of a commodity as time goes on. And currently, Zen 2 is hands down the best perf/watt combo currently. > And aren't all x86 licensee prevented from keeping that license if they are bought? That was a the rumor, but centaur has already been bought and kept it's license, so at a minimum there there's some fine print to that clause. And my experience with B2B is that clauses like that are ultimately a product of the circumstances from when they're written. If circumstances change, those clauses can change. The most indelible ink is the most likely to have new semantics later.