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People who are worried about Apple's review process being arbitrary and onerous have no idea what's in store for them when VR/AR becomes more mainstream. Facebo

People who are worried about Apple's review process being arbitrary and onerous have no idea what's in store for them when VR/AR becomes more mainstream. Facebook's Oculus store is more of a "don't call us, we'll call you" and it's not getting better - they're actively training users to want this type of curation. The smartphone era will quickly be seen as the Good Old Days where publishing was self-serve at all. Basically what I'm saying is, we need to nip this in the bud, or indie development is over.

whatshisface 6y ago
The "don't call us, we'll call you" model already exists in the form of game consoles. Nintendo is probably the most restrictive in this way. If you don't have a pile of money for the development equipment, don't bother calling.
- toast0 6y ago
  I don't think this is as true for Nintendo anymore. The switch store is full of tons of stuff. Maybe they're not letting everything through, and they certainly aren't letting everyone make physical games, but the digital store seems like it must not have a big filter.
  - the_af 6y ago
    I don't own a Nintendo console: what's a physical game and how does it differ from a digital game?
    - Larrikin 6y ago
      There are some games where you can't buy a physical cartridge and Nintendo actively encourages players to buy digital versions of games that are stored on the switch by offering a discount. Personally I refuse to buy digital versions whenever I can after what happened with the Wii, but some titles I can't actually get.
    - toast0 6y ago
      To add on/clarify. A physical game for the switch is basically a memory card --- put it in any switch and you can play. A digital game is a download, tied to your device and/or account.
      - the_af 6y ago
        Ah! The downside is that you can trade memory cards but you can't do the same with downloads?
        toast0 6y ago
        Yes, exactly.
- jay_kyburz 6y ago
  I thought a nintendo dev kit was about $100 bucks.
  - jackson1442 6y ago
    I believe for 3DS it was closer to $1000, definitely at least double the regular console cost, whatever it was.
- cancerSpreads 6y ago
  No surprise here. Apple and Nintendo are cut from the same cloth. Big marketing budget, medium quality product, high price. I do my part in capitalism by purchasing products that are quality.
  - brokencode 6y ago
    Both companies are famous for the high quality of their products, but are also often criticized by some due to the specs of their hardware for the price. Is that what you mean by “medium quality”? Because the easily quantifiable specs of a device are usually a very poor indicator of quality, and quality is much more nuanced in reality. For instance, the Xbox has always had higher specs than same generation Nintendo devices, but does that mean the quality is better? The Xbox One has almost no significant exclusive games, whereas the Switch has a huge number of critically acclaimed exclusives.
    - cancerSpreads 6y ago
      "critically acclaimed exclusives." Marketing BOTW wasn't even an 8/10
mantap 6y ago
When the iPhone was first released there was no App Store. Many people asked for one. Eventually Apple relented and told developers to... make web apps for the iPhone instead. This wasn't enough, so eventually eventually they released the App Store. Somewhere alone the line the iPhone was also jailbroken and users with the jailbreak could install their own software. The point is that a general purpose computing device without apps is a highly unstable situation. The bigger the potential for apps, the louder the demands get.
- jdxcode 6y ago
  I don't think they released the App Store because people asked for it. It just wasn't ready on launch day (or would've had any apps in it)
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    No, there were jailbreaks that got native code execution and everyone wanted those kinds of apps.
    - on_and_off 6y ago
      that's how I remember it as well. The first app store on iOS was third party hacks to be able to install 3rd party apps.
  - Vomzor 6y ago
    Steve Jobs was against native apps. If I remember correctly Apple execs had to plead with him to change his mind.
  - miffy900 6y ago
    Nope, not true. Steve Jobs initially envisioned the iPhone as a device with no 3rd party app support. Even internally, Apple execs at the time had to lobby him to change his mind: https://9to5mac.com/2011/10/21/jobs-original-vision-for-the-iphone-no-third-party-native-apps/ https://9to5mac.com/2011/10/21/jobs-original-vision-for-the-...
jayd16 6y ago
Or just throw it up on Steam.
- moron4hire 6y ago
  Steam also has an approval process that is becoming more and more controlled.
- ericflo 6y ago
  That misses the largest and fastest-growing market for VR: self-contained systems like Oculus Quest, which has had no real competition for about a year now. They ask that you pitch them with marketing materials and get permission before you start working on anything, so they can "compassionately" tell you not to even start: * https://developer.oculus.com/blog/submitting-your-app-to-the-oculus-quest-store/ https://developer.oculus.com/blog/submitting-your-app-to-the... * https://developer.oculus.com/quest-pitch-form/ https://developer.oculus.com/quest-pitch-form/ > If we feel that your app is not a fit for Quest, we'd like to let you know that early in the development process, before you've made significant production investments, rather than at the end.
wilshipley 6y ago
Honestly I prefer a curated store. I’ve had discussions with people who work at the Apple App Store about having only curated apps show up by default, but anyone “rejected” from the curated list can still put their app up, they just have to give the direct App Store URL for people to find their app. I’d love this, myself, as a customer and as a developer. But, also, I’m arrogant enough to assume I’d be one of the curated. -Wil

whatshisface 6y ago

The "don't call us, we'll call you" model already exists in the form of game consoles. Nintendo is probably the most restrictive in this way. If you don't have a pile of money for the development equipment, don't bother calling.

toast0 6y ago
I don't think this is as true for Nintendo anymore. The switch store is full of tons of stuff. Maybe they're not letting everything through, and they certainly aren't letting everyone make physical games, but the digital store seems like it must not have a big filter.
- the_af 6y ago
  I don't own a Nintendo console: what's a physical game and how does it differ from a digital game?
  - Larrikin 6y ago
    There are some games where you can't buy a physical cartridge and Nintendo actively encourages players to buy digital versions of games that are stored on the switch by offering a discount. Personally I refuse to buy digital versions whenever I can after what happened with the Wii, but some titles I can't actually get.
  - toast0 6y ago
    To add on/clarify. A physical game for the switch is basically a memory card --- put it in any switch and you can play. A digital game is a download, tied to your device and/or account.
    - the_af 6y ago
      Ah! The downside is that you can trade memory cards but you can't do the same with downloads?
      - toast0 6y ago
        Yes, exactly.
jay_kyburz 6y ago
I thought a nintendo dev kit was about $100 bucks.
- jackson1442 6y ago
  I believe for 3DS it was closer to $1000, definitely at least double the regular console cost, whatever it was.
cancerSpreads 6y ago
No surprise here. Apple and Nintendo are cut from the same cloth. Big marketing budget, medium quality product, high price. I do my part in capitalism by purchasing products that are quality.
- brokencode 6y ago
  Both companies are famous for the high quality of their products, but are also often criticized by some due to the specs of their hardware for the price. Is that what you mean by “medium quality”? Because the easily quantifiable specs of a device are usually a very poor indicator of quality, and quality is much more nuanced in reality. For instance, the Xbox has always had higher specs than same generation Nintendo devices, but does that mean the quality is better? The Xbox One has almost no significant exclusive games, whereas the Switch has a huge number of critically acclaimed exclusives.
  - cancerSpreads 6y ago
    "critically acclaimed exclusives." Marketing BOTW wasn't even an 8/10

mantap 6y ago

When the iPhone was first released there was no App Store. Many people asked for one. Eventually Apple relented and told developers to... make web apps for the iPhone instead. This wasn't enough, so eventually eventually they released the App Store. Somewhere alone the line the iPhone was also jailbroken and users with the jailbreak could install their own software. The point is that a general purpose computing device without apps is a highly unstable situation. The bigger the potential for apps, the louder the demands get.

jdxcode 6y ago
I don't think they released the App Store because people asked for it. It just wasn't ready on launch day (or would've had any apps in it)
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- saagarjha 6y ago
  No, there were jailbreaks that got native code execution and everyone wanted those kinds of apps.
  - on_and_off 6y ago
    that's how I remember it as well. The first app store on iOS was third party hacks to be able to install 3rd party apps.
- Vomzor 6y ago
  Steve Jobs was against native apps. If I remember correctly Apple execs had to plead with him to change his mind.
- miffy900 6y ago
  Nope, not true. Steve Jobs initially envisioned the iPhone as a device with no 3rd party app support. Even internally, Apple execs at the time had to lobby him to change his mind: https://9to5mac.com/2011/10/21/jobs-original-vision-for-the-iphone-no-third-party-native-apps/ https://9to5mac.com/2011/10/21/jobs-original-vision-for-the-...

jayd16 6y ago

Or just throw it up on Steam.

moron4hire 6y ago
Steam also has an approval process that is becoming more and more controlled.
ericflo 6y ago
That misses the largest and fastest-growing market for VR: self-contained systems like Oculus Quest, which has had no real competition for about a year now. They ask that you pitch them with marketing materials and get permission before you start working on anything, so they can "compassionately" tell you not to even start: * https://developer.oculus.com/blog/submitting-your-app-to-the-oculus-quest-store/ https://developer.oculus.com/blog/submitting-your-app-to-the... * https://developer.oculus.com/quest-pitch-form/ https://developer.oculus.com/quest-pitch-form/ > If we feel that your app is not a fit for Quest, we'd like to let you know that early in the development process, before you've made significant production investments, rather than at the end.

wilshipley 6y ago

Honestly I prefer a curated store. I’ve had discussions with people who work at the Apple App Store about having only curated apps show up by default, but anyone “rejected” from the curated list can still put their app up, they just have to give the direct App Store URL for people to find their app. I’d love this, myself, as a customer and as a developer. But, also, I’m arrogant enough to assume I’d be one of the curated. -Wil