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>Women do not want a 'hottie'. I can tell you those women who go out with that 'hottie' have no self esteem, and are not happy. They end up at my wife's practic

>Women do not want a 'hottie'. I can tell you those women who go out with that 'hottie' have no self esteem, and are not happy. They end up at my wife's practice. Out of curiosity, how do you integrate the online dating studies that point to 70%+ of women only wanting the top 20% of men (ie. the "hotties") into your wife's practice, and what she sees from her clients?

luckylion 6y ago
They don't "really" want them, they just "want" them because of low self-esteem seems to be the approach of matching that particular theory to reality.
koonsolo 6y ago
I looked at that data together with my wife, and my analytical mind concluded that it's all bullshit with a clickbait title. Take this for instance: https://medium.com/@worstonlinedater/tinder-experiments-ii-guys-unless-you-are-really-hot-you-are-probably-better-off-not-wasting-your-2ddf370a6e9a https://medium.com/@worstonlinedater/tinder-experiments-ii-g... , based on 27 women, and he even says himself "Additionally, I am only accounting for the percentage of “likes” and not the actual men they “like”. I have to assume that in general females find the same men attractive. I think this is the biggest flaw in this analysis". So yeah, basically you can throw away any conclusion there. Other articles are based on this "study". But maybe there are new studies that I haven't seen yet. I have a problem with the word "hottie" because we men know very well which girls fall into this category. But because women have way more and different dimensions to select on, a male photo model doesn't have as much attraction as you would expect. Men in that sense are really lucky, because we can boost our attractiveness pretty good. Women on the other hand, if you don't have the looks, there is only so much you can do with makeup.
- pas 6y ago
  The OkCupid blog has robust data. Have you looked at that? Not saying that these studies are not flawed, but the simple fact that Tinder and most of online dating is basically a looks based popularity contest hints at a problem for the median folks. There's always a lot of new users, there are always a few young new and attractive users. So the majority just waits for the one. So the hot ones pair off, leave the platform (or come back and pair off with other hot ones, then repeat), but the Average Jane and Joe just waste their time and money while having their self-esteem crushed.
  - koonsolo 6y ago
    Have to check out the OkCupid stuff. Thanks for the tip! > the simple fact that Tinder and most of online dating is basically a looks based popularity contest hints at a problem for the median folks. Why would you think real life would be any different? There are a lot of parameters in the dating game, bug if played right, you can definitely find success on these platforms. Best example is one of my wife's customers: a 50 year old, average looking woman, who has success on Tinder. No kidding!
    - pas 6y ago
      IRL you have more than looks, more than one (at best two) static pictures. Plus online dating is very passive. There is no chance to hear someone's voice, to flirting with someone, to make them laugh. (Sure, there are online similars to them, but they are far from equivalents.) For starters IRL you rarely have the density of "encounters" that you have on Tinder, so you have a lot more resources invested in meeting people, this likely increases how much time you spend on one person at a time. Regarding the 50 year old women. She has success on Tinder? Why is that no kidding? Or you have left out a "no"?
      - koonsolo 6y ago
        > Plus online dating is very passive... Like you say, it is impossible. I made that mistake when I started, until I realized that there is only 1 goal: get her on a date. And while other guys were asking "how was your day?" every few days, I asked them out after a good chat, and shortcutted it.

luckylion 6y ago

They don't "really" want them, they just "want" them because of low self-esteem seems to be the approach of matching that particular theory to reality.

koonsolo 6y ago

I looked at that data together with my wife, and my analytical mind concluded that it's all bullshit with a clickbait title. Take this for instance: https://medium.com/@worstonlinedater/tinder-experiments-ii-guys-unless-you-are-really-hot-you-are-probably-better-off-not-wasting-your-2ddf370a6e9a https://medium.com/@worstonlinedater/tinder-experiments-ii-g... , based on 27 women, and he even says himself "Additionally, I am only accounting for the percentage of “likes” and not the actual men they “like”. I have to assume that in general females find the same men attractive. I think this is the biggest flaw in this analysis". So yeah, basically you can throw away any conclusion there. Other articles are based on this "study". But maybe there are new studies that I haven't seen yet. I have a problem with the word "hottie" because we men know very well which girls fall into this category. But because women have way more and different dimensions to select on, a male photo model doesn't have as much attraction as you would expect. Men in that sense are really lucky, because we can boost our attractiveness pretty good. Women on the other hand, if you don't have the looks, there is only so much you can do with makeup.

pas 6y ago
The OkCupid blog has robust data. Have you looked at that? Not saying that these studies are not flawed, but the simple fact that Tinder and most of online dating is basically a looks based popularity contest hints at a problem for the median folks. There's always a lot of new users, there are always a few young new and attractive users. So the majority just waits for the one. So the hot ones pair off, leave the platform (or come back and pair off with other hot ones, then repeat), but the Average Jane and Joe just waste their time and money while having their self-esteem crushed.
- koonsolo 6y ago
  Have to check out the OkCupid stuff. Thanks for the tip! > the simple fact that Tinder and most of online dating is basically a looks based popularity contest hints at a problem for the median folks. Why would you think real life would be any different? There are a lot of parameters in the dating game, bug if played right, you can definitely find success on these platforms. Best example is one of my wife's customers: a 50 year old, average looking woman, who has success on Tinder. No kidding!
  - pas 6y ago
    IRL you have more than looks, more than one (at best two) static pictures. Plus online dating is very passive. There is no chance to hear someone's voice, to flirting with someone, to make them laugh. (Sure, there are online similars to them, but they are far from equivalents.) For starters IRL you rarely have the density of "encounters" that you have on Tinder, so you have a lot more resources invested in meeting people, this likely increases how much time you spend on one person at a time. Regarding the 50 year old women. She has success on Tinder? Why is that no kidding? Or you have left out a "no"?
    - koonsolo 6y ago
      > Plus online dating is very passive... Like you say, it is impossible. I made that mistake when I started, until I realized that there is only 1 goal: get her on a date. And while other guys were asking "how was your day?" every few days, I asked them out after a good chat, and shortcutted it.