7 ms·

Although not wrong, and full of interesting details, this is a really puzzling article. It feels a little like writing about how you couldn't get your toaster t

by cannam 6y ago

Although not wrong, and full of interesting details, this is a really puzzling article. It feels a little like writing about how you couldn't get your toaster to boil noodles. (Though not as unsafe.) I use Linux as my main desktop and have always found it very pleasant, but if my main thing was video editing, I wouldn't try to do it with Linux on ARM64 and then grumble when it turned out not to work very well. (Of course what makes the article worth reading is the fact that its author has tried just that, and reported on it. It's an interesting report! It's simply odd that the article seems so disappointed, since surely few readers would have expected any other result.)

unixhero 6y ago
This is because suther of OP is an absolute clueless "technology author".
- Avicebron 6y ago
  He seems to have at least several years of experience working in software on his about page. Not sure if that registers as clueless.
- cannam 6y ago
  That's nonsense, and I'm ashamed to have written a comment that could yield a reply like this. If that is also how my comment reads, then I am sorry. The original article is a good one. The author is obviously not at all clueless. It should be possible to do a day's work on a computer of similar spec to an 8G Raspberry Pi. That the article was puzzling springs, probably, from familiarity with trying to switch from one platform and architecture to another without any help from the OS in terms of emulation or other support. It's hard to do.
0xCMP 6y ago
Video editing was at the bottom of the article after many other problems he encountered. I do not use Linux as my desktop anymore, but I have, and every time I try I run in to all kinds of issues like this.
- cocoa19 6y ago
  I recently started doing video editing with blender and it has been a pleasant experience. I have a beefy computer though, not a toaster. I own an RPi4, and it stutters doing something basic like 1080p video playback on VLC, so not ideal for multimedia.
  - Dahoon 6y ago
    > it stutters doing something basic like 1080p video playback on VLC That is interesting. What bitrate are the files?
    - heavyset_go 6y ago
      Encoding is probably more important. Without acceleration from a hardware codec, decoding modern videos is CPU intensive.
_bxg1 6y ago
> If your use of the computer is more oriented towards the browser, a code editor, and the command line (e.g. backend web development, infrastructure development, writing/blogging, and the like), the Pi is perfectly adequate, and with 8GB of RAM, Chromium runs just fine, even if you have a bunch of tabs open. The author does a good job of going into the separate use-cases.
- chiefalchemist 6y ago
  A colleague has effectively abandoned local dev. His "local" is Digital Ocean. If the project is critial he locks it down by only letting his IP in. Gives new meaning to "virtual desktop." I'm sold on the idea but I will likely go with VS Code instead. He uses Vim. God bless him :) In this context the Pi feels intriguing. I'm going to run this past him.
  - tyingq 6y ago
    For me, a used USFF x86 box fits the bill better. It's not hard to find a $~125 Lenovo m93p "tiny". With an i5 x86-64, 8GB, and a small, but real SSD. At first, $125 seems like a lot more than the 8GB Rpi will cost you, but things like a power supply, enclosure, and an SSD add up.
    - chiefalchemist 6y ago
      That's a good point. What about an older Win * laptop that support a popular distro? Where can I find a list of such machines? My work provides a MBP but for myself I want to go further. Note: I've traditionally been a Windows person. Mind you Win 10 has distro support, I might as well keep going :)
  - Jtsummers 6y ago
    There are some plugins (I haven't used them) for using VS Code with remote instances. You can also use sshfs to mount the remote system and use VS Code as if the files were on your local system. [0] https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/remote/ssh https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/remote/ssh [1] https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-use-sshfs-to-mount-remote-file-systems-over-ssh https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-use-...
jjoonathan 6y ago
I wish the lessons of OP's reality check were better established in our industry's collective consciousness. Pis are great, but I can't count how many times I've seen a raspberry pi stuck in an application where its strengths have no value and its limitations have severe consequences. The "$100/hr developer waiting for a $5 computer to finish being slow" is a classic. Bonus points for "laggy $5 kiosk in a $1MM expo outing." The most damage probably comes from semi-permanent customer-facing installs where the pi gets to inflict misery on every person passing through. Articles like this help "responsibly consume" the raspberry pi, and that's something we can all benefit from.
fortran77 6y ago
Ok, maybe you can't boil noodles in a toaster, but you can cook a steak on an electric clothes iron: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/kbx3dv/how-to-cook-like-an-iron-chef https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/kbx3dv/how-to-cook-like-a...
- KMnO4 6y ago
  And salmon in a dishwasher! https://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/dishwasher-salmon-with-a-piquant-dill-sauce-recipe-2013387 https://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/dishwasher-salmon-with-a...
cztomsik 6y ago
In my experience, linux is (unfortunately) only good for running server apps. Ubuntu is good but it's still like 20ys in the past when compared to macos (and that's including how macos gets worse with every new release). There are so many things wrong or half-finished, inconsistent (3 ways to copy/paste, no native GUI fw/toolkit, vsync/video/browser tearing), I'm afraid to install updates because sometimes it won't boot up and I'll need to figure out what went wrong this time (instead of doing what I wanted). Linux ppl like to say it's because of HW but no, it's because they don't care or they have different goals but then I don't understand why the same people often don't understand why linux is not more widespread. If you want to get job done, get a mac, it's still the best choice (unfortunately, I don't like it but it's the least evil - W7 was good too but W10 spy/adware is ew)
- nine_k 6y ago
  I use desktop Linux for last ~20 years. I don't use Gnome; my choice is simpler things like Xfce, and Window Maker before that. I find the fact that I can configure it my way utterly important, and performance-increasing, for me. This is exactly what I dislike about MacOS: it is very opnionated and rather inflexible. (I also see zero vsync tearing, and I'm fine with GTK2, GTK3, and Qt all look reasonably consistent under the theme I can and did customize myself.) You are correct, MacOS and desktop Linux have different target audiences, with distinctly different preferences, neither of which is "more correct". This is not Linux "20 years behind" MacOS; it's often away in a completely different direction. (Though yes, Gnome folks try to imitate MacOS, and they are forever behind by construction, because they are chasing, not blazing new trails.)
  - Bnshsysjab 6y ago
    This. I couldn’t figure out how to do multiple workspaces and switching between two full screened apps took ~500ms. Virtually all Linux DEs did that seamlessly. That is, except that trash fire that was the Ubuntu default up until ~19.x
    - m463 6y ago
      use mission control to create "spaces" (workspace) see System Preferences -> Mission Control to make sure you have a key or mouse button mapped to invoke mission control. invoke mission control and press the (+) sign in the upper right hand corner to get the number of spaces you'd like You can switch between spaces using keys defined in System Preferences -> Keyboard -> [Shortcuts] choose mission control on the left and map they keys you like. I use option-1 .. option-8 (aka alt-1 .. alt-8) to switch to specific spaces. (I'm not using catalina, for all I know apple has removed spaces because it's not something an appliance should have)
bitwize 6y ago
There was a bloke (I think it was the Explaining Computers guy) who tried editing one of his YT vids on the 4 GiB Pi 4 (with USB-attached SSD for the video data), and found it serviceable. Obviously not ideal, but it was up to the job.
- trickstra 6y ago
  Take the price of a Macbook, buy that many Raspbery Pis, connect them in a beowulf cluster and try rendering videos again. Might be completely different story.
1_person 6y ago
Incidentally, an (analog) toaster should have no problem boiling water if turned on and dropped into a bucket. The heating element lifespan would probably be short and it would be tremendously unsafe, but it's just a resistive heater. You may need to cut the ground wire to the toaster if the circuit has a ground fault circuit interrupter, though.
- 0-_-0 6y ago
  You sound like a Linux user :)
  - russfink 6y ago
    <snort>
- Nextgrid 6y ago
  Wouldn't the exposed wiring cause electrolysis if the water is conductive enough (possibly due to contamination)?
  - yellowapple 6y ago
    Seems like a useful way to get hydrogen and oxygen, then, provided you can capture/separate the gases and someone else is paying the power bill. I should try this for Hindenburg 2: Electric Boogaloo.
zwayhowder 6y ago
I had the same feeling. Most of the article was about challenges the author has with Linux in a single day of trying. My SO could have written the exact same article about the time her work gave her an iPhone when she's been an Android users since 2011. It's like me deciding to learn Polish and giving up at the end of the day because I'm not fluent. (I actually tried for three months before deciding the pierogi was the only word I needed).
m463 6y ago
The beginning seemed a little like getting your [amazon toaster link] to boil [amazon noodles link]

by cannam 6y ago

unixhero 6y ago

This is because suther of OP is an absolute clueless "technology author".

Avicebron 6y ago
He seems to have at least several years of experience working in software on his about page. Not sure if that registers as clueless.
cannam 6y ago
That's nonsense, and I'm ashamed to have written a comment that could yield a reply like this. If that is also how my comment reads, then I am sorry. The original article is a good one. The author is obviously not at all clueless. It should be possible to do a day's work on a computer of similar spec to an 8G Raspberry Pi. That the article was puzzling springs, probably, from familiarity with trying to switch from one platform and architecture to another without any help from the OS in terms of emulation or other support. It's hard to do.

0xCMP 6y ago

Video editing was at the bottom of the article after many other problems he encountered. I do not use Linux as my desktop anymore, but I have, and every time I try I run in to all kinds of issues like this.

cocoa19 6y ago
I recently started doing video editing with blender and it has been a pleasant experience. I have a beefy computer though, not a toaster. I own an RPi4, and it stutters doing something basic like 1080p video playback on VLC, so not ideal for multimedia.
- Dahoon 6y ago
  > it stutters doing something basic like 1080p video playback on VLC That is interesting. What bitrate are the files?
  - heavyset_go 6y ago
    Encoding is probably more important. Without acceleration from a hardware codec, decoding modern videos is CPU intensive.

_bxg1 6y ago

> If your use of the computer is more oriented towards the browser, a code editor, and the command line (e.g. backend web development, infrastructure development, writing/blogging, and the like), the Pi is perfectly adequate, and with 8GB of RAM, Chromium runs just fine, even if you have a bunch of tabs open. The author does a good job of going into the separate use-cases.

chiefalchemist 6y ago
A colleague has effectively abandoned local dev. His "local" is Digital Ocean. If the project is critial he locks it down by only letting his IP in. Gives new meaning to "virtual desktop." I'm sold on the idea but I will likely go with VS Code instead. He uses Vim. God bless him :) In this context the Pi feels intriguing. I'm going to run this past him.
- tyingq 6y ago
  For me, a used USFF x86 box fits the bill better. It's not hard to find a $~125 Lenovo m93p "tiny". With an i5 x86-64, 8GB, and a small, but real SSD. At first, $125 seems like a lot more than the 8GB Rpi will cost you, but things like a power supply, enclosure, and an SSD add up.
  - chiefalchemist 6y ago
    That's a good point. What about an older Win * laptop that support a popular distro? Where can I find a list of such machines? My work provides a MBP but for myself I want to go further. Note: I've traditionally been a Windows person. Mind you Win 10 has distro support, I might as well keep going :)
- Jtsummers 6y ago
  There are some plugins (I haven't used them) for using VS Code with remote instances. You can also use sshfs to mount the remote system and use VS Code as if the files were on your local system. [0] https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/remote/ssh https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/remote/ssh [1] https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-use-sshfs-to-mount-remote-file-systems-over-ssh https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-use-...

jjoonathan 6y ago

I wish the lessons of OP's reality check were better established in our industry's collective consciousness. Pis are great, but I can't count how many times I've seen a raspberry pi stuck in an application where its strengths have no value and its limitations have severe consequences. The "$100/hr developer waiting for a $5 computer to finish being slow" is a classic. Bonus points for "laggy $5 kiosk in a $1MM expo outing." The most damage probably comes from semi-permanent customer-facing installs where the pi gets to inflict misery on every person passing through. Articles like this help "responsibly consume" the raspberry pi, and that's something we can all benefit from.

fortran77 6y ago

Ok, maybe you can't boil noodles in a toaster, but you can cook a steak on an electric clothes iron: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/kbx3dv/how-to-cook-like-an-iron-chef https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/kbx3dv/how-to-cook-like-a...

KMnO4 6y ago
And salmon in a dishwasher! https://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/dishwasher-salmon-with-a-piquant-dill-sauce-recipe-2013387 https://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/dishwasher-salmon-with-a...

cztomsik 6y ago

In my experience, linux is (unfortunately) only good for running server apps. Ubuntu is good but it's still like 20ys in the past when compared to macos (and that's including how macos gets worse with every new release). There are so many things wrong or half-finished, inconsistent (3 ways to copy/paste, no native GUI fw/toolkit, vsync/video/browser tearing), I'm afraid to install updates because sometimes it won't boot up and I'll need to figure out what went wrong this time (instead of doing what I wanted). Linux ppl like to say it's because of HW but no, it's because they don't care or they have different goals but then I don't understand why the same people often don't understand why linux is not more widespread. If you want to get job done, get a mac, it's still the best choice (unfortunately, I don't like it but it's the least evil - W7 was good too but W10 spy/adware is ew)

nine_k 6y ago
I use desktop Linux for last ~20 years. I don't use Gnome; my choice is simpler things like Xfce, and Window Maker before that. I find the fact that I can configure it my way utterly important, and performance-increasing, for me. This is exactly what I dislike about MacOS: it is very opnionated and rather inflexible. (I also see zero vsync tearing, and I'm fine with GTK2, GTK3, and Qt all look reasonably consistent under the theme I can and did customize myself.) You are correct, MacOS and desktop Linux have different target audiences, with distinctly different preferences, neither of which is "more correct". This is not Linux "20 years behind" MacOS; it's often away in a completely different direction. (Though yes, Gnome folks try to imitate MacOS, and they are forever behind by construction, because they are chasing, not blazing new trails.)
- Bnshsysjab 6y ago
  This. I couldn’t figure out how to do multiple workspaces and switching between two full screened apps took ~500ms. Virtually all Linux DEs did that seamlessly. That is, except that trash fire that was the Ubuntu default up until ~19.x
  - m463 6y ago
    use mission control to create "spaces" (workspace) see System Preferences -> Mission Control to make sure you have a key or mouse button mapped to invoke mission control. invoke mission control and press the (+) sign in the upper right hand corner to get the number of spaces you'd like You can switch between spaces using keys defined in System Preferences -> Keyboard -> [Shortcuts] choose mission control on the left and map they keys you like. I use option-1 .. option-8 (aka alt-1 .. alt-8) to switch to specific spaces. (I'm not using catalina, for all I know apple has removed spaces because it's not something an appliance should have)

bitwize 6y ago

There was a bloke (I think it was the Explaining Computers guy) who tried editing one of his YT vids on the 4 GiB Pi 4 (with USB-attached SSD for the video data), and found it serviceable. Obviously not ideal, but it was up to the job.

trickstra 6y ago
Take the price of a Macbook, buy that many Raspbery Pis, connect them in a beowulf cluster and try rendering videos again. Might be completely different story.

1_person 6y ago

Incidentally, an (analog) toaster should have no problem boiling water if turned on and dropped into a bucket. The heating element lifespan would probably be short and it would be tremendously unsafe, but it's just a resistive heater. You may need to cut the ground wire to the toaster if the circuit has a ground fault circuit interrupter, though.

0-_-0 6y ago
You sound like a Linux user :)
- russfink 6y ago
  <snort>
Nextgrid 6y ago
Wouldn't the exposed wiring cause electrolysis if the water is conductive enough (possibly due to contamination)?
- yellowapple 6y ago
  Seems like a useful way to get hydrogen and oxygen, then, provided you can capture/separate the gases and someone else is paying the power bill. I should try this for Hindenburg 2: Electric Boogaloo.

zwayhowder 6y ago

I had the same feeling. Most of the article was about challenges the author has with Linux in a single day of trying. My SO could have written the exact same article about the time her work gave her an iPhone when she's been an Android users since 2011. It's like me deciding to learn Polish and giving up at the end of the day because I'm not fluent. (I actually tried for three months before deciding the pierogi was the only word I needed).

m463 6y ago

The beginning seemed a little like getting your [amazon toaster link] to boil [amazon noodles link]