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Maybe tinder isn't reality and many in fact most people meet each other outside of tinder. 78% of women aren't actually chasing the top 20% of men and are in fa

Maybe tinder isn't reality and many in fact most people meet each other outside of tinder. 78% of women aren't actually chasing the top 20% of men and are in fact available to meet outside of hook ups on tinder. Reducing women to vaginas on legs that can't be obtained outside of tinder is a big part of why 1/3 not 80% of men aren't getting much play. For other contributing factors I would look at generational differences in socialization and inequality. Nowhere on the radar is "hypergammy" a piece of incel lingo not spoken but suggested. Honesty I'm surprised to read this thread on hacker news instead of reddit.

troughway 6y ago
>Maybe tinder isn't reality and many in fact most people meet each other outside of tinder. 78% of women aren't actually chasing the top 20% of men and are in fact available to meet outside of hook ups on tinder. No, Tinder is reality. It's naive to believe that just because it's a platform that facilitates communication and hookup that it's somehow disconnected from reality in it's own little microcosm or niche. All Tinder does is reflect human behavior. Between Tinder, OkCupid and N other apps you have more than enough data needed to draw some very damning conclusions. Way beyond "more than enough", actually. People who reject reality and live in their own little fantasy worlds will find themselves in for a bad surprise when they come to. I mentioned this in a post further below - this is not new knowledge. Long before online dating apps, in the 90s, there existed alt.seduction.fast newsgroup that outlined all of this for people. Read Neil Strauss' "The Game" for some chilling truths, and then bring yourself back to 2020 and look at what is happening today. It isn't much different.
- michaelmrose 6y ago
  The author of the game calls it "a book about scared men who were afraid of women." He also says he himself at the time of writing suffered from mental illness. https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/oct/10/neil-strauss-the-game-book-truth https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/oct/10/neil-st...
  - troughway 6y ago
    >"a book about scared men who were afraid of women." Sounds about right actually. That's part of the reason why we are in this situation, and part of where the resentment comes from. Rejection is harsh for (almost) everyone to deal with. It's much easier to stay at home, play video games, masturbate, and blame your lack of <X> on why you are sexless.
  - harambae 6y ago
    That's just so he can sell his new book which is the other side of the coin [0]. It doesn't mean he actually wrote anything inaccurate. [0] https://www.amazon.com/Truth-Love-Commitment-Puzzle-Male-ebook/dp/B00ICN31SA/ https://www.amazon.com/Truth-Love-Commitment-Puzzle-Male-ebo...
CameronNemo 6y ago
>maybe ... many in fact most people meet each other outside of tinder Evidence shows that online dating is immensely dominant. https://news.stanford.edu/2019/08/21/online-dating-popular-way-u-s-couples-meet/ https://news.stanford.edu/2019/08/21/online-dating-popular-w...
onetimeusename 6y ago
The study didn't say anything about Tinder. However, your theory doesn't hold up. The study found that men who had part time employment, no employment, or were students were more likely to be sexually inactive. There isn't any data that suggests that those men are only using Tinder and failing or anything else you described. If you define inequality in terms of employment or wealth, you may be right, but that does indeed still suggest the culprit is hypergamy actually as women select men with better employment prospects.
- michaelmrose 6y ago
  Women wanting a man with a job that pays enough not to live with mom isn't "hypergamy". The literal problem you are naming is inequality wherein an increasing minority can't afford a decent life despite working. It's not a defect in female choice its about the bottom 1/3 sharing a single digit percentage of the wealth and income. Females aren't all chasing the top 20% rich tall guys they are all chasing someone high enough on the fiscal totem pole to have something which is a lot broader than 20% and leaves 1/3 hung out to dry not 80%. Female choice is rational our society is not. We cannot fix anything if we cannot even identify the problem.
  - onetimeusename 6y ago
    That still is hypergamy. You are just stating that women have preferences. That is exactly what hypergamy means. That women have preferences that suit their own tastes. That is their prerogative. What is not true though is that this is entirely an economic problem. If it were entirely economic, then why did sexual activity decrease for men but not women? Is that because men gave up? Are men disproportionately likely to self sabotage? Are men disproportionately likely to suffer from economic inequality than women? Do men not care about economic status in partners but women do?
    - michaelmrose 6y ago
      It disproportionately effects men because it's much more acceptable for a lower status women who is at least somewhat physically attractive to set up shop in a higher status man's life than vice versa. Furthermore men value youth far more than women do so a only moderately physically gifted 20 year old might be valued over her counterpart a dozen years older and twice as well off herself. Young poor females are in a much better position to leverage their looks and youth. Basically men pick boobs and youth and men pick status and ability to support and you have somehow identified the women as the parties making an irrational choice and labeled this hypergamy.
thrwaway69 6y ago
I am not surprised given hn is like the top 1% of the global population.
jfkebwjsbx 6y ago
Tinder is definitely real and used by the majority of young people living in big cities. I am in my late twenties and all my friends, male and female, used it at some point or another. Whether people use it to find relationships is a different question. I did not use it for that, but some of my friends did... (or tried...)

troughway 6y ago

>Maybe tinder isn't reality and many in fact most people meet each other outside of tinder. 78% of women aren't actually chasing the top 20% of men and are in fact available to meet outside of hook ups on tinder. No, Tinder is reality. It's naive to believe that just because it's a platform that facilitates communication and hookup that it's somehow disconnected from reality in it's own little microcosm or niche. All Tinder does is reflect human behavior. Between Tinder, OkCupid and N other apps you have more than enough data needed to draw some very damning conclusions. Way beyond "more than enough", actually. People who reject reality and live in their own little fantasy worlds will find themselves in for a bad surprise when they come to. I mentioned this in a post further below - this is not new knowledge. Long before online dating apps, in the 90s, there existed alt.seduction.fast newsgroup that outlined all of this for people. Read Neil Strauss' "The Game" for some chilling truths, and then bring yourself back to 2020 and look at what is happening today. It isn't much different.

michaelmrose 6y ago
The author of the game calls it "a book about scared men who were afraid of women." He also says he himself at the time of writing suffered from mental illness. https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/oct/10/neil-strauss-the-game-book-truth https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/oct/10/neil-st...
- troughway 6y ago
  >"a book about scared men who were afraid of women." Sounds about right actually. That's part of the reason why we are in this situation, and part of where the resentment comes from. Rejection is harsh for (almost) everyone to deal with. It's much easier to stay at home, play video games, masturbate, and blame your lack of <X> on why you are sexless.
- harambae 6y ago
  That's just so he can sell his new book which is the other side of the coin [0]. It doesn't mean he actually wrote anything inaccurate. [0] https://www.amazon.com/Truth-Love-Commitment-Puzzle-Male-ebook/dp/B00ICN31SA/ https://www.amazon.com/Truth-Love-Commitment-Puzzle-Male-ebo...

CameronNemo 6y ago

>maybe ... many in fact most people meet each other outside of tinder Evidence shows that online dating is immensely dominant. https://news.stanford.edu/2019/08/21/online-dating-popular-way-u-s-couples-meet/ https://news.stanford.edu/2019/08/21/online-dating-popular-w...

onetimeusename 6y ago

The study didn't say anything about Tinder. However, your theory doesn't hold up. The study found that men who had part time employment, no employment, or were students were more likely to be sexually inactive. There isn't any data that suggests that those men are only using Tinder and failing or anything else you described. If you define inequality in terms of employment or wealth, you may be right, but that does indeed still suggest the culprit is hypergamy actually as women select men with better employment prospects.

michaelmrose 6y ago
Women wanting a man with a job that pays enough not to live with mom isn't "hypergamy". The literal problem you are naming is inequality wherein an increasing minority can't afford a decent life despite working. It's not a defect in female choice its about the bottom 1/3 sharing a single digit percentage of the wealth and income. Females aren't all chasing the top 20% rich tall guys they are all chasing someone high enough on the fiscal totem pole to have something which is a lot broader than 20% and leaves 1/3 hung out to dry not 80%. Female choice is rational our society is not. We cannot fix anything if we cannot even identify the problem.
- onetimeusename 6y ago
  That still is hypergamy. You are just stating that women have preferences. That is exactly what hypergamy means. That women have preferences that suit their own tastes. That is their prerogative. What is not true though is that this is entirely an economic problem. If it were entirely economic, then why did sexual activity decrease for men but not women? Is that because men gave up? Are men disproportionately likely to self sabotage? Are men disproportionately likely to suffer from economic inequality than women? Do men not care about economic status in partners but women do?
  - michaelmrose 6y ago
    It disproportionately effects men because it's much more acceptable for a lower status women who is at least somewhat physically attractive to set up shop in a higher status man's life than vice versa. Furthermore men value youth far more than women do so a only moderately physically gifted 20 year old might be valued over her counterpart a dozen years older and twice as well off herself. Young poor females are in a much better position to leverage their looks and youth. Basically men pick boobs and youth and men pick status and ability to support and you have somehow identified the women as the parties making an irrational choice and labeled this hypergamy.

thrwaway69 6y ago

I am not surprised given hn is like the top 1% of the global population.

jfkebwjsbx 6y ago

Tinder is definitely real and used by the majority of young people living in big cities. I am in my late twenties and all my friends, male and female, used it at some point or another. Whether people use it to find relationships is a different question. I did not use it for that, but some of my friends did... (or tried...)