5 ms·

That's similar to saying that technology isn't about liberating the worker, but rendering most of the work force obsolete and only hiring the top 20% of perform

That's similar to saying that technology isn't about liberating the worker, but rendering most of the work force obsolete and only hiring the top 20% of performers. Your freedom does not compel anybody to be in a relationship with you, just like your freedom does not require somebody to hire you. I agree that there are larger societal changes at play, but saying this isn't strictly more free than before isn't painting the picture honestly.

luckylion 6y ago
> Your freedom does not compel anybody to be in a relationship with you, just like your freedom does not require somebody to hire you. I generally agree with this, but then again, I'm also generally wary of taxation for the same reason: nobody should be required to give money to somebody else via the state.
codingslave 6y ago
Its a zero sum game. When one side wins, the other side loses. Sexual freedom for women means essentially no sex for alot of men.
- Nav_Panel 6y ago
  I don't think this is a universal fact, so much as a result of the way that dating culture has played out over the last few decades. If you read the work of earlier sexual reformers, particularly Wilhelm Reich, who wrote "Sexual Revolution" in the 1930s (yes, that one), then you instead find dreams of new ways of living together, with sexual freedom going hand-in-hand with the total abolition of the nuclear family, etc. Instead, we've become more isolated in societal terms, and more dependent on commodifying ourselves and others (particular in terms of image) in order to attain our social and physical pleasures. It is the result of this shift--isolation and atomization, not freedom qua freedom--that we see the problems discussed here.
- derrick_jensen 6y ago
  I'd argue that most men that won't have sex probably have some character issues they need to work out personally, or otherwise need to develop into somebody interesting. Dopamine hits from other places are more easy to come by, so it wouldn't surprise me that they just don't care enough, relative to their peers.
  - maximente 6y ago
    i actually think i'd reverse the cause and effect here: your 2nd sentence, i suspect, is driving the lack of effort, not what you said in your first sentence. personally i think that super easily accessible pornography (immediate, on-demand insane dopamine bath, infinite novelty, super attractive partners, infinite variety, no potential for rejection, no need to worry about the other person, free, .....) and masturbation probably lead to most men to not even bother. worse, once you're on that cycle your brain gets tolerant so you go seeking more and more intensity and novelty (fetishes, etc.) that gets further and further away from "normal" romantic/sexual interactions that you probably think it'd be a waste of time even trying.
  - deathgrips 6y ago
    I'd argue that people who get laid off deserve it and just need to work harder.

luckylion 6y ago

> Your freedom does not compel anybody to be in a relationship with you, just like your freedom does not require somebody to hire you. I generally agree with this, but then again, I'm also generally wary of taxation for the same reason: nobody should be required to give money to somebody else via the state.

codingslave 6y ago

Its a zero sum game. When one side wins, the other side loses. Sexual freedom for women means essentially no sex for alot of men.

Nav_Panel 6y ago
I don't think this is a universal fact, so much as a result of the way that dating culture has played out over the last few decades. If you read the work of earlier sexual reformers, particularly Wilhelm Reich, who wrote "Sexual Revolution" in the 1930s (yes, that one), then you instead find dreams of new ways of living together, with sexual freedom going hand-in-hand with the total abolition of the nuclear family, etc. Instead, we've become more isolated in societal terms, and more dependent on commodifying ourselves and others (particular in terms of image) in order to attain our social and physical pleasures. It is the result of this shift--isolation and atomization, not freedom qua freedom--that we see the problems discussed here.
derrick_jensen 6y ago
I'd argue that most men that won't have sex probably have some character issues they need to work out personally, or otherwise need to develop into somebody interesting. Dopamine hits from other places are more easy to come by, so it wouldn't surprise me that they just don't care enough, relative to their peers.
- maximente 6y ago
  i actually think i'd reverse the cause and effect here: your 2nd sentence, i suspect, is driving the lack of effort, not what you said in your first sentence. personally i think that super easily accessible pornography (immediate, on-demand insane dopamine bath, infinite novelty, super attractive partners, infinite variety, no potential for rejection, no need to worry about the other person, free, .....) and masturbation probably lead to most men to not even bother. worse, once you're on that cycle your brain gets tolerant so you go seeking more and more intensity and novelty (fetishes, etc.) that gets further and further away from "normal" romantic/sexual interactions that you probably think it'd be a waste of time even trying.
- deathgrips 6y ago
  I'd argue that people who get laid off deserve it and just need to work harder.