5 ms·

A lot of guys are complaining in the thread, with undertones of an expectation of sex Most likely reason I see that would cause this data: the immense social p

A lot of guys are complaining in the thread, with undertones of an expectation of sex Most likely reason I see that would cause this data: the immense social pressure applied to straight women has lessened in the 21st century. A straight woman won't be ostricized at 25 if they don't "have a man." The data suggests that young straight men aren't having as much sex. I postulate that the only reason is that straight men need to work harder to impress empowered straight women. And that the overwhelming majority aren't even trying.

deleted 6y ago
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thewarrior 6y ago
But the data also shows that for women the figure is unchanged.
- malcolmgreaves 6y ago
  Precisely illustrates my point: most men are still operating under an outdated expectation of sex and romance. That merely existing suffices for being a good partner. When in reality, standards have been vastly increased any only a few men have gotten with the times.
  - thewarrior 6y ago
    And what are the standards exactly ? Plenty of people who have good jobs, average bodies and decent personalities absolutely struggle. If that’s not enough ...
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
- bjl 6y ago
  Because the men that are willing to put in the effort are still having sex. Its not hard for a man to become attractive: eat right, exercise often, groom regularly, dress well, develop a compelling personality, cultivate relationships with interesting people. The fact that people who don't even try aren't able to have sex doesn't seem surprising (or bad).
  - ravitation 6y ago
    You comically underestimate how hard those things are for many men, especially those that are economically disadvantaged. I don't agree with many of the takes in these comments, but your simplification to "just work harder" isn't any better.
    - bjl 6y ago
      Economics doesn't have anything to do with these. - Eat Right - actually cheaper than eating unhealthy - Exercise Often - possible to do free - Groom regularly - very cheap, the cost of a haircut every couple of months - Develop a personality - free - Cultivate relationships - free
      - ravitation 6y ago
        Once again your ability to absurdly oversimplify things is truly astounding. The reason why one's economic situation is relevant (and it's relevant to essentially everything), is because it becomes a source of many other biological and social pressures that might prevent someone from spending time, for example, "[developing] a personality" (whatever that means).
  - quasarj 6y ago
    > Its not hard for a man to become attractive Proceeds to list the most difficult things in life.
    - bjl 6y ago
      None of the things listed are difficult at all. They take willpower and time, of course, but they aren't rocket science.
tonystubblebine 6y ago
I'm liking where Malcolm is going. So much of the talk in this thread is defeatist, like if some other guy has you beat in terms of wealth or looks then you have no chance. But that way of thinking makes it really hard to solve the problem for yourself if that's what you're interested in. So as I read your note, empowered straight women have some basic standards and they are finding that they have more freedom finally to hold out for those standards. But these standards are probably not all that difficult for men to attain and so why aren't men talking more about just doing that work?
- mD5pPxMcS6fVWKE 6y ago
  The standards are not "basic", they are very high. All men can't be in top 20%. No matter how hard they try, 80% of men will never achieve that standard. So something should be done with them, maybe castration, or culling.
  - tonystubblebine 6y ago
    I'd like to opt out of this plan, thank you.
quasarj 6y ago
Well, the article did start by saying if you aren't having sex, that's bad for your health. So, it seems like we should be having sex, but of course, you can't just "decide to have sex", you need a willing partner. I have tried a lot of things over the past 10 years, but haven't had any success. Eventually I just gave up. I imagine many men are in this category, though it's hard to know. These days I'm fat, ugly, and dying (ESRD). So I think my time is over, and there's little reason to spend what time I have left on trying to find someone to love me, when the chances are the lowest they've ever been.
- wolfhumble 6y ago
  I am not familiar with ESRD but I really hope that there is something that can be done about it. Blessings man, sad to hear about your medical condition!
randyrand 6y ago
Most people expect to have sex. It's why we teach sex education - because we expect sex among teens! Sex is normal. It's even worth planning and teaching for. Maybe the word you meant to say is "entitled" to sex. That is pretty ridiculous for sure. There's a distinction, IMO.
buboard 6y ago
men aren't ostracized at 25 (or 35) either for not "having a woman". Is there an undertone here that they should be trying?
deathgrips 6y ago
>A lot of guys are complaining in the thread, with undertones of an expectation of sex I don't see the undertones. Copied from another comment: It's so interesting how whenever any man talks about romantic problems he is met with this feminist mantra "you aren't owed sex". Do you honestly think that's what we're talking about? If someone talked about how much it sucks that they don't have car and need to walk to work would you tell them "you aren't owed a car"? I think people regurgitate this phrase because we can't ever acknowledge that sexual empowerment results in peoples needs not being met. It must be their fault, they must be sabotaging somehow. They must be sexists.
downerending 6y ago
> that straight men need to work harder to impress empowered straight women That might be true, but sounds rather sexist. If I was a young man today, faced with a large number of such entitled women, I'd probably just bow out completely. Successful relationships require mutuality, not "you need to impress me".

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

thewarrior 6y ago

But the data also shows that for women the figure is unchanged.

malcolmgreaves 6y ago
Precisely illustrates my point: most men are still operating under an outdated expectation of sex and romance. That merely existing suffices for being a good partner. When in reality, standards have been vastly increased any only a few men have gotten with the times.
- thewarrior 6y ago
  And what are the standards exactly ? Plenty of people who have good jobs, average bodies and decent personalities absolutely struggle. If that’s not enough ...
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
bjl 6y ago
Because the men that are willing to put in the effort are still having sex. Its not hard for a man to become attractive: eat right, exercise often, groom regularly, dress well, develop a compelling personality, cultivate relationships with interesting people. The fact that people who don't even try aren't able to have sex doesn't seem surprising (or bad).
- ravitation 6y ago
  You comically underestimate how hard those things are for many men, especially those that are economically disadvantaged. I don't agree with many of the takes in these comments, but your simplification to "just work harder" isn't any better.
  - bjl 6y ago
    Economics doesn't have anything to do with these. - Eat Right - actually cheaper than eating unhealthy - Exercise Often - possible to do free - Groom regularly - very cheap, the cost of a haircut every couple of months - Develop a personality - free - Cultivate relationships - free
    - ravitation 6y ago
      Once again your ability to absurdly oversimplify things is truly astounding. The reason why one's economic situation is relevant (and it's relevant to essentially everything), is because it becomes a source of many other biological and social pressures that might prevent someone from spending time, for example, "[developing] a personality" (whatever that means).
- quasarj 6y ago
  > Its not hard for a man to become attractive Proceeds to list the most difficult things in life.
  - bjl 6y ago
    None of the things listed are difficult at all. They take willpower and time, of course, but they aren't rocket science.

tonystubblebine 6y ago

I'm liking where Malcolm is going. So much of the talk in this thread is defeatist, like if some other guy has you beat in terms of wealth or looks then you have no chance. But that way of thinking makes it really hard to solve the problem for yourself if that's what you're interested in. So as I read your note, empowered straight women have some basic standards and they are finding that they have more freedom finally to hold out for those standards. But these standards are probably not all that difficult for men to attain and so why aren't men talking more about just doing that work?

mD5pPxMcS6fVWKE 6y ago
The standards are not "basic", they are very high. All men can't be in top 20%. No matter how hard they try, 80% of men will never achieve that standard. So something should be done with them, maybe castration, or culling.
- tonystubblebine 6y ago
  I'd like to opt out of this plan, thank you.

quasarj 6y ago

Well, the article did start by saying if you aren't having sex, that's bad for your health. So, it seems like we should be having sex, but of course, you can't just "decide to have sex", you need a willing partner. I have tried a lot of things over the past 10 years, but haven't had any success. Eventually I just gave up. I imagine many men are in this category, though it's hard to know. These days I'm fat, ugly, and dying (ESRD). So I think my time is over, and there's little reason to spend what time I have left on trying to find someone to love me, when the chances are the lowest they've ever been.

wolfhumble 6y ago
I am not familiar with ESRD but I really hope that there is something that can be done about it. Blessings man, sad to hear about your medical condition!

randyrand 6y ago

Most people expect to have sex. It's why we teach sex education - because we expect sex among teens! Sex is normal. It's even worth planning and teaching for. Maybe the word you meant to say is "entitled" to sex. That is pretty ridiculous for sure. There's a distinction, IMO.

buboard 6y ago

men aren't ostracized at 25 (or 35) either for not "having a woman". Is there an undertone here that they should be trying?

deathgrips 6y ago

>A lot of guys are complaining in the thread, with undertones of an expectation of sex I don't see the undertones. Copied from another comment: It's so interesting how whenever any man talks about romantic problems he is met with this feminist mantra "you aren't owed sex". Do you honestly think that's what we're talking about? If someone talked about how much it sucks that they don't have car and need to walk to work would you tell them "you aren't owed a car"? I think people regurgitate this phrase because we can't ever acknowledge that sexual empowerment results in peoples needs not being met. It must be their fault, they must be sabotaging somehow. They must be sexists.

downerending 6y ago

> that straight men need to work harder to impress empowered straight women That might be true, but sounds rather sexist. If I was a young man today, faced with a large number of such entitled women, I'd probably just bow out completely. Successful relationships require mutuality, not "you need to impress me".