4 ms·

It's not a straw man, it is fact. Parent post wasn't saying this was no big deal, just pointing out correctly that there are more fundamental issues in play -

It's not a straw man, it is fact. Parent post wasn't saying this was no big deal, just pointing out correctly that there are more fundamental issues in play - like qualified immunity and the cultural racist cancers we suffer from that demonize poor and brown people and fetishize the military and police. Private prisons are awful. Any sane ethical person must agree with that. But calling out that it isn't the root of the issue is far from a straw man. It is a rallying call that the fight is far from over (!!)

newacct583 6y ago
A strawman argument can be true, but still be a strawman. The essential point is that it's a distraction. Saying "we have to fix state prisons too!" is not an argument against "private prisons are a moral hazard". We should do both!
- dahfizz 6y ago
  NIT: I think you mean red herring. A red herring fallacy is misdirection with irrelevant information. A straw man is a type of red herring which specifically involves misrepresenting the original argument. https://socratic.org/questions/what-is-the-difference-between-a-red-herring-and-straw-man-fallacy https://socratic.org/questions/what-is-the-difference-betwee...
- drdeca 6y ago
  A strawman is when you misrepresent an opposing position or argument to make it appear weaker than it is, and argue against the weak version. Fighting an opponent made of straw which was created in order to be defeated. (Similarly, a weakman is when you seek out someone who genuinely holds a weak (easier to argue against) version of the position you wish to push against, argue against this weak version, and act as if you have argued against the stronger versions. Neither of these appear to be what has been done here.
- nwallin 6y ago
  That's not what a strawman argument is. A strawman argument is when you restate someone's argument in a way that's stupid, then you refute the stupid argument. Or in the extreme case, argue against an argument that the person never made. In both cases, you're not arguing against the other person, you're arguing against a straw man that you made up. Hence the name. It's still a logical fallacy, just a different one. Fallacy of relative privation applies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies#Fallacy_of_relative_privation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies#Fallacy_of_r...

newacct583 6y ago

A strawman argument can be true, but still be a strawman. The essential point is that it's a distraction. Saying "we have to fix state prisons too!" is not an argument against "private prisons are a moral hazard". We should do both!

dahfizz 6y ago
NIT: I think you mean red herring. A red herring fallacy is misdirection with irrelevant information. A straw man is a type of red herring which specifically involves misrepresenting the original argument. https://socratic.org/questions/what-is-the-difference-between-a-red-herring-and-straw-man-fallacy https://socratic.org/questions/what-is-the-difference-betwee...
drdeca 6y ago
A strawman is when you misrepresent an opposing position or argument to make it appear weaker than it is, and argue against the weak version. Fighting an opponent made of straw which was created in order to be defeated. (Similarly, a weakman is when you seek out someone who genuinely holds a weak (easier to argue against) version of the position you wish to push against, argue against this weak version, and act as if you have argued against the stronger versions. Neither of these appear to be what has been done here.
nwallin 6y ago
That's not what a strawman argument is. A strawman argument is when you restate someone's argument in a way that's stupid, then you refute the stupid argument. Or in the extreme case, argue against an argument that the person never made. In both cases, you're not arguing against the other person, you're arguing against a straw man that you made up. Hence the name. It's still a logical fallacy, just a different one. Fallacy of relative privation applies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies#Fallacy_of_relative_privation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies#Fallacy_of_r...