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Private prisons have a financial incentive to detain inmates for as long as possible. The prison has some input into when a detainee is released (good behavior,

Private prisons have a financial incentive to detain inmates for as long as possible. The prison has some input into when a detainee is released (good behavior, etc) and private prisons have been observed abusing this power. Private prisons also have incentives to find ways to cut costs and often do so in ways which harm detainees. Private prisons also have incentive to lobby for longer mandatory prison terms regardless of whether it makes sense for the crime or not. Tons of conflict of interest in private prisons which are in addition to the potential abuses associated with public prisons.

Gustomaximus 6y ago
It doesnt have to be. Why don't they do something like pay private prisons the bare minimum per diem but then offer a trailing commission for every year an ex-con is out of jail past a certain date. Do the statistics for average time to return to prison, and pay them a bonus every year a prisoner is over that average date for 10 years type thing. So jails make little money for the incarceration but earn profits from the rehabilitation.
- aj7 6y ago
  Because profits are maximized by the current practices.
  - dahfizz 6y ago
    Not if you change the way that prisons make money, with is what your parent is talking about...
- dahfizz 6y ago
  What could also make sense is paying the prison a lump sum for the convict instead of a per diem. This changes the incentive structure from keeping people locked up as long as possible to rehabilitating and releasing them as fast as possible.
  - Traster 6y ago
    Just skip the rehab step entirely and just release them - it's cheaper for the prison and the increased chance of re-offending means they'll get another lump sum next go around too!
    - dahfizz 6y ago
      That's not up to the prison. The only way for a convict to leave prison early is to convince the State that they are worth paroling. Therefore, the prison would be incentivized to work with the prisoners to encourage good behavior and to show the parole board that a prisoner is worth paroling.
  - ogre_codes 6y ago
    > This changes the incentive structure from keeping people locked up as long as possible to rehabilitating and releasing them as fast as possible. So long as private prisons have a say in when a prisoner is released there is conflict of interest. If a private prison gets paid $100k for a prisoner, they are going to ensure they are released at the very soonest opportunity instead of detaining them as long as possible. If they get paid per diem, they will keep them as long as possible.
    - dahfizz 6y ago
      > So long as private prisons have a say in when a prisoner is released there is conflict of interest. I agree. This would work best if the prison had no influence on the parole board's decision. That way, the only way to get people out of prison faster is to actually rehabilitate them and encourage good behavior.
  - mason55 6y ago
    I don't see where the incentive to rehabilitate is? They're just incentivized to release them ASAP so they spend as little as possible.
    - dahfizz 6y ago
- Traster 6y ago
  The issue isn't that you can structure incentives to make private prisons prioritize rehabilitation. The issue is that private prisons create a risk of regulatory capture. What creates the largest ROI for the private prison under your suggestions? Sinking loads of money into rehabilitation programmes losing money until decades later where they start to see their trailing commission, or ploughing loads of money into lobbying to change the rules to provide a high per diem and no rehabilitation goals?
- Fjolsvith 6y ago
  An inmate can have his prison sentence extended through loss of good time. All while in a private prison.
staycoolboy 6y ago
Why is this comment greyed? It's not an insult, or troll, it's a known problem and the OP shifted the debate to horrible stuff done in state prisons, which is equally true and awful, but doesn't change the facts, right? From the ACLU: https://www.aclu.org/issues/smart-justice/mass-incarceration/private-prisons https://www.aclu.org/issues/smart-justice/mass-incarceration... Here's a classic example: "Kids for Cash", 2011 in PA: https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2011/08/11/139536686/pa-judge-sentenced-to-28-years-in-massive-juvenile-justice-bribery-scandal https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2011/08/11/139536686...
opo 6y ago
The government run prisons in CA are worse than the private prisons they closed. The prisons in CA are so bad, the federal government actually took over oversight of the medical care as they failed to provide a constitutional level of medical care to its prisoners: >... US District Court Judge Thelton Henderson said he was “driven in large measure by the stunning testimony that was uncontroverted that a prisoner in one of California's 32 prisons dies on average every 6 or 7 days as a result of malpractice, negligence, or some other deficiency in the State's medical care delivery system.” https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140673605671978/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS014067... As fennecfoxen pointed out they also did things like forced sterilizations. The real problem is that we spend many billions on a prison industrial complex and there are many public sector unions, contractors, builders, etc who profit from it. The political contributions of the CA prison guard union are obviously not being done to lower the number of prison guard positions. As wikipedia says "...The CCPOA is widely considered one of the most powerful political forces in California politics. ... Lobbying efforts and campaign contributions by the CCPOA have helped secure passage of numerous legislative bills favorable to union members, including bills that increase prison terms, member pay, and enforce current drug laws." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Correctional_Peace_Officers_Association https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Correctional_Peace_... This isn't to say that CA prisons are the worst in the country - likely other state's prisons are just as bad as CA. When you have the people regulating a system be the same people who are running the system, you really can't expect things to be that good.
lukifer 6y ago
I'm in 100% agreement on the perverse incentives of private prisons; however it's worth noting that similar incentives exist for prison guard unions, even for publicly managed prisons: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Correctional_Peace_Officers_Association#Lobbying https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Correctional_Peace_... Abolishing private prisons is a good start, but we need much more drastic reform to the prison-industrial complex and failed "tough on crime" policies, particular in the realms of drug policy, community investment, and mental health.
- Retric 6y ago
  Prison guard unions have vastly less financial resources to work with and a wider range of issues they care about. They often brought up to deflect discussion, but simply operate at a order of magnitude smaller scale.
  - opo 6y ago
    >...They often brought up to deflect discussion, but simply operate at a order of magnitude smaller scale. That is simply not correct. >...In the 2016 election cycle, private prisons gave a record $1.6 million to candidates, parties and outside spending groups. 90% of that came from one company (GEO Group). https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=G7000 https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=G7000 Now compare the private prison industry to the prison guard union in CA CCPOA(California Correctional Peace Officers Association). >...These dues raise approximately $23 million each year, of which the CCPOA allocates approximately $8 million to lobbying. This is just the CA prison guard union and it is $8 million a year. From the same article: >...many of [CCPOA’s] contributions are directly pro-incarceration. It gave over $100,000 to California’s Three Strikes initiative, Proposition 184 in 1994, making it the second-largest contributor. It gave at least $75,000 to the opponents of Proposition 36, the 2000 initiative that replaced incarceration with substance abuse treatment for certain nonviolent offenders. From 1998 to 2000 it gave over $120,000 to crime victims’ groups, who present a more sympathetic face to the public in their pro-incarceration advocacy. It spent over $1 million to help defeat Proposition 66, the 2004 initiative that would have limited the crimes that triggered a life sentence under the Three Strikes law. And in 2005, it killed Gov. Schwarzenegger’s plan to “reduce the prison population by as much as 20,000, mainly through a program that diverted parole violators into rehabilitation efforts: drug programs, halfway houses and home detention.” https://californiapolicycenter.org/the-role-of-the-prison-guards-union-in-californias-troubled-prison-system/ https://californiapolicycenter.org/the-role-of-the-prison-gu... Besides lobbying for more incarceration, they also lobby to prevent accountability: >...Between 1989 and 1999, 39 inmates were shot to death, and 200 more were wounded. Not one district attorney in the state prosecuted a correctional officer for any of these assaults. ... Local district attorneys have good reason to hesitate before taking a position against the CCPOA’s interests. Greg Strickland, former district attorney in Kings County, home to Corcoran state correctional facilitity, attempted to take a brutality case to the grand jury. The CCPOA fueled his opponent with $30,000 in the next election, leading to Strickland’s defeat. A similar scenario happened in Del Norte County and in Susanville. https://web.archive.org/web/20061006074501/http://www.cjcj.org/cpp/political_power.php https://web.archive.org/web/20061006074501/http://www.cjcj.o...
thephyber 6y ago
Additionally, they usually contract with the government for a minimum occupancy, where the government pays the cost if they can't fill up enough beds. Current contractual incentives on both sides of the prison company / government relationship are too perverse.
aagha 6y ago
I have a friend that's spent time in both state and private facilities and he's said--hands down--he'd rather be at a private facility than a state-run one. According to him, the quality of the food, cleanliness, staff is WAY higher at a private facility than the state run one.

Gustomaximus 6y ago

It doesnt have to be. Why don't they do something like pay private prisons the bare minimum per diem but then offer a trailing commission for every year an ex-con is out of jail past a certain date. Do the statistics for average time to return to prison, and pay them a bonus every year a prisoner is over that average date for 10 years type thing. So jails make little money for the incarceration but earn profits from the rehabilitation.

aj7 6y ago
Because profits are maximized by the current practices.
- dahfizz 6y ago
  Not if you change the way that prisons make money, with is what your parent is talking about...
dahfizz 6y ago
What could also make sense is paying the prison a lump sum for the convict instead of a per diem. This changes the incentive structure from keeping people locked up as long as possible to rehabilitating and releasing them as fast as possible.
- Traster 6y ago
  Just skip the rehab step entirely and just release them - it's cheaper for the prison and the increased chance of re-offending means they'll get another lump sum next go around too!
  - dahfizz 6y ago
    That's not up to the prison. The only way for a convict to leave prison early is to convince the State that they are worth paroling. Therefore, the prison would be incentivized to work with the prisoners to encourage good behavior and to show the parole board that a prisoner is worth paroling.
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  > This changes the incentive structure from keeping people locked up as long as possible to rehabilitating and releasing them as fast as possible. So long as private prisons have a say in when a prisoner is released there is conflict of interest. If a private prison gets paid $100k for a prisoner, they are going to ensure they are released at the very soonest opportunity instead of detaining them as long as possible. If they get paid per diem, they will keep them as long as possible.
  - dahfizz 6y ago
    > So long as private prisons have a say in when a prisoner is released there is conflict of interest. I agree. This would work best if the prison had no influence on the parole board's decision. That way, the only way to get people out of prison faster is to actually rehabilitate them and encourage good behavior.
- mason55 6y ago
  I don't see where the incentive to rehabilitate is? They're just incentivized to release them ASAP so they spend as little as possible.
  - dahfizz 6y ago
Traster 6y ago
The issue isn't that you can structure incentives to make private prisons prioritize rehabilitation. The issue is that private prisons create a risk of regulatory capture. What creates the largest ROI for the private prison under your suggestions? Sinking loads of money into rehabilitation programmes losing money until decades later where they start to see their trailing commission, or ploughing loads of money into lobbying to change the rules to provide a high per diem and no rehabilitation goals?
Fjolsvith 6y ago
An inmate can have his prison sentence extended through loss of good time. All while in a private prison.

staycoolboy 6y ago

Why is this comment greyed? It's not an insult, or troll, it's a known problem and the OP shifted the debate to horrible stuff done in state prisons, which is equally true and awful, but doesn't change the facts, right? From the ACLU: https://www.aclu.org/issues/smart-justice/mass-incarceration/private-prisons https://www.aclu.org/issues/smart-justice/mass-incarceration... Here's a classic example: "Kids for Cash", 2011 in PA: https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2011/08/11/139536686/pa-judge-sentenced-to-28-years-in-massive-juvenile-justice-bribery-scandal https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2011/08/11/139536686...

opo 6y ago

The government run prisons in CA are worse than the private prisons they closed. The prisons in CA are so bad, the federal government actually took over oversight of the medical care as they failed to provide a constitutional level of medical care to its prisoners: >... US District Court Judge Thelton Henderson said he was “driven in large measure by the stunning testimony that was uncontroverted that a prisoner in one of California's 32 prisons dies on average every 6 or 7 days as a result of malpractice, negligence, or some other deficiency in the State's medical care delivery system.” https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140673605671978/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS014067... As fennecfoxen pointed out they also did things like forced sterilizations. The real problem is that we spend many billions on a prison industrial complex and there are many public sector unions, contractors, builders, etc who profit from it. The political contributions of the CA prison guard union are obviously not being done to lower the number of prison guard positions. As wikipedia says "...The CCPOA is widely considered one of the most powerful political forces in California politics. ... Lobbying efforts and campaign contributions by the CCPOA have helped secure passage of numerous legislative bills favorable to union members, including bills that increase prison terms, member pay, and enforce current drug laws." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Correctional_Peace_Officers_Association https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Correctional_Peace_... This isn't to say that CA prisons are the worst in the country - likely other state's prisons are just as bad as CA. When you have the people regulating a system be the same people who are running the system, you really can't expect things to be that good.

lukifer 6y ago

I'm in 100% agreement on the perverse incentives of private prisons; however it's worth noting that similar incentives exist for prison guard unions, even for publicly managed prisons: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Correctional_Peace_Officers_Association#Lobbying https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Correctional_Peace_... Abolishing private prisons is a good start, but we need much more drastic reform to the prison-industrial complex and failed "tough on crime" policies, particular in the realms of drug policy, community investment, and mental health.

Retric 6y ago
Prison guard unions have vastly less financial resources to work with and a wider range of issues they care about. They often brought up to deflect discussion, but simply operate at a order of magnitude smaller scale.
- opo 6y ago
  >...They often brought up to deflect discussion, but simply operate at a order of magnitude smaller scale. That is simply not correct. >...In the 2016 election cycle, private prisons gave a record $1.6 million to candidates, parties and outside spending groups. 90% of that came from one company (GEO Group). https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=G7000 https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=G7000 Now compare the private prison industry to the prison guard union in CA CCPOA(California Correctional Peace Officers Association). >...These dues raise approximately $23 million each year, of which the CCPOA allocates approximately $8 million to lobbying. This is just the CA prison guard union and it is $8 million a year. From the same article: >...many of [CCPOA’s] contributions are directly pro-incarceration. It gave over $100,000 to California’s Three Strikes initiative, Proposition 184 in 1994, making it the second-largest contributor. It gave at least $75,000 to the opponents of Proposition 36, the 2000 initiative that replaced incarceration with substance abuse treatment for certain nonviolent offenders. From 1998 to 2000 it gave over $120,000 to crime victims’ groups, who present a more sympathetic face to the public in their pro-incarceration advocacy. It spent over $1 million to help defeat Proposition 66, the 2004 initiative that would have limited the crimes that triggered a life sentence under the Three Strikes law. And in 2005, it killed Gov. Schwarzenegger’s plan to “reduce the prison population by as much as 20,000, mainly through a program that diverted parole violators into rehabilitation efforts: drug programs, halfway houses and home detention.” https://californiapolicycenter.org/the-role-of-the-prison-guards-union-in-californias-troubled-prison-system/ https://californiapolicycenter.org/the-role-of-the-prison-gu... Besides lobbying for more incarceration, they also lobby to prevent accountability: >...Between 1989 and 1999, 39 inmates were shot to death, and 200 more were wounded. Not one district attorney in the state prosecuted a correctional officer for any of these assaults. ... Local district attorneys have good reason to hesitate before taking a position against the CCPOA’s interests. Greg Strickland, former district attorney in Kings County, home to Corcoran state correctional facilitity, attempted to take a brutality case to the grand jury. The CCPOA fueled his opponent with $30,000 in the next election, leading to Strickland’s defeat. A similar scenario happened in Del Norte County and in Susanville. https://web.archive.org/web/20061006074501/http://www.cjcj.org/cpp/political_power.php https://web.archive.org/web/20061006074501/http://www.cjcj.o...

thephyber 6y ago

Additionally, they usually contract with the government for a minimum occupancy, where the government pays the cost if they can't fill up enough beds. Current contractual incentives on both sides of the prison company / government relationship are too perverse.

aagha 6y ago

I have a friend that's spent time in both state and private facilities and he's said--hands down--he'd rather be at a private facility than a state-run one. According to him, the quality of the food, cleanliness, staff is WAY higher at a private facility than the state run one.