5 ms·

You will have a "car accident." Well, actually you won't, but only because you will "listen to reason" when some well-dressed uninvited guests come over for an

You will have a "car accident." Well, actually you won't, but only because you will "listen to reason" when some well-dressed uninvited guests come over for an evening chat. Call me mad, but do you ever wonder why there is no consumer hardware PGP telephone?

pdenya 16y ago
This phone doesn't exist because there's not a market for it. I definitely wouldn't buy that. I, like a lot of others, don't have anything to hide from the government so even though I oppose the wire-tapping i'm not going to inconvenience myself to keep arbitrary data and idle chat secure.
- asciilifeform 16y ago
  We'll meet in the labor camps one day and have a good laugh at each other's expense.
  - sabat 16y ago
    As if they'd let you live.
viraptor 16y ago
> do you ever wonder why there is no consumer hardware PGP telephone? Not on the analogue phone. But you can easily get a TLS-enabled or ZRTP-enabled hardware or software VoIP phone. Many vpbx providers will also provide you with a vpn tunnel endpoint if you ask about it often enough. Also, since the analogue phone PSTN interface is pretty trivial to handle, there are multitude of analogue encryption boxes which work as an adapter to the line. Plug & play. You could even use a pc to compress the voice on one side, encrypt, send over an established modem connection and decrypt on the other side. You don't need the analogue phone itself to do that at all.
- asciilifeform 16y ago
  > Not on the analogue phone. And not on a consumer cell phone, either. > But you can easily get a TLS-enabled or ZRTP-enabled hardware or software VoIP phone. In theory, arbitrarily strong/usable encryption products can be marketed within the USA. In practice, from this list: A) Usable by non-experts (requires no software fiddling, hardware mix-and-match, or other wastes of time) B) Based on uncrackable/de-facto uncrackable cryptosystem (One-time pad, Public Key - respectively) C) Affordable by / marketed to ordinary people We are permitted to choose only TWO. >...the analogue phone PSTN interface is pretty trivial to handle, there are multitude of analogue encryption boxes which work as an adapter to the line. Analog "scramblers" are a joke. Any seriously-interested party can crack any and all of them without breaking a sweat. >...use a pc to compress the voice on one side, encrypt, send over an established modem connection... Sure, you can use a PC. But if you package this up as a pure-hardware solution usable by anyone who already knows how to use a telephone, certain people will take steps to ensure that your product does not stay on the market. I do not know what the penalty is for violating the "gentleman's agreement" between the NSA and the electronics industry. But I would not care to find out.
  - StavrosK 16y ago
    How would a phone use an OTP? Would you send the key by carrier pidgeon to the guy every time you wanted to make a phone call? There's absolutely no way to get security without some sort of verification by the user. At the very least, you need someone to verify that the keys are correct "can you read me your phone's security serial?". It shouldn't be too hard to create affordable, usable phones based on PKC. The problem is that nobody cares who listens to their conversations, because it's all "where are we meeting tonight/that movie was shit/i can't believe X did Y".
    - asciilifeform 16y ago
      > How would a phone use an OTP? A year of 9600 baud is ~36.1 GB. Hand-deliver a flash stick once a year. Obviously this is not a solution for everyday telephony between strangers. But RSA could be. > nobody cares who listens to their conversations This is true mostly because seriously caring is at present impractical.

pdenya 16y ago

This phone doesn't exist because there's not a market for it. I definitely wouldn't buy that. I, like a lot of others, don't have anything to hide from the government so even though I oppose the wire-tapping i'm not going to inconvenience myself to keep arbitrary data and idle chat secure.

asciilifeform 16y ago
We'll meet in the labor camps one day and have a good laugh at each other's expense.
- sabat 16y ago
  As if they'd let you live.

viraptor 16y ago

> do you ever wonder why there is no consumer hardware PGP telephone? Not on the analogue phone. But you can easily get a TLS-enabled or ZRTP-enabled hardware or software VoIP phone. Many vpbx providers will also provide you with a vpn tunnel endpoint if you ask about it often enough. Also, since the analogue phone PSTN interface is pretty trivial to handle, there are multitude of analogue encryption boxes which work as an adapter to the line. Plug & play. You could even use a pc to compress the voice on one side, encrypt, send over an established modem connection and decrypt on the other side. You don't need the analogue phone itself to do that at all.

asciilifeform 16y ago
> Not on the analogue phone. And not on a consumer cell phone, either. > But you can easily get a TLS-enabled or ZRTP-enabled hardware or software VoIP phone. In theory, arbitrarily strong/usable encryption products can be marketed within the USA. In practice, from this list: A) Usable by non-experts (requires no software fiddling, hardware mix-and-match, or other wastes of time) B) Based on uncrackable/de-facto uncrackable cryptosystem (One-time pad, Public Key - respectively) C) Affordable by / marketed to ordinary people We are permitted to choose only TWO. >...the analogue phone PSTN interface is pretty trivial to handle, there are multitude of analogue encryption boxes which work as an adapter to the line. Analog "scramblers" are a joke. Any seriously-interested party can crack any and all of them without breaking a sweat. >...use a pc to compress the voice on one side, encrypt, send over an established modem connection... Sure, you can use a PC. But if you package this up as a pure-hardware solution usable by anyone who already knows how to use a telephone, certain people will take steps to ensure that your product does not stay on the market. I do not know what the penalty is for violating the "gentleman's agreement" between the NSA and the electronics industry. But I would not care to find out.
- StavrosK 16y ago
  How would a phone use an OTP? Would you send the key by carrier pidgeon to the guy every time you wanted to make a phone call? There's absolutely no way to get security without some sort of verification by the user. At the very least, you need someone to verify that the keys are correct "can you read me your phone's security serial?". It shouldn't be too hard to create affordable, usable phones based on PKC. The problem is that nobody cares who listens to their conversations, because it's all "where are we meeting tonight/that movie was shit/i can't believe X did Y".
  - asciilifeform 16y ago
    > How would a phone use an OTP? A year of 9600 baud is ~36.1 GB. Hand-deliver a flash stick once a year. Obviously this is not a solution for everyday telephony between strangers. But RSA could be. > nobody cares who listens to their conversations This is true mostly because seriously caring is at present impractical.