23 ms·

Fountain pen ink properties

153 points by polm23 6y ago

098799 6y ago
Surprising to see this on HN. Yes, fountain pens are a rabbit hole. No, they are not really useful - it's hard to edit or search through what you wrote on paper - but the feeling while writing is pretty amazing.
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  I have to use a fountain pen at work to write certain documents, so knowing about good pens is very useful.
  - jaclaz 6y ago
    Yep, and I am old enough to have actually worked several years at a time when certain official documents/registers had to be hand-written. I am not talking of one line per day, I am talking of tens of pages per day. When you have to write at length (hours per day) there is nothing as "light" as a fountain pen, using ball pen or rollers invariably get your hand more tired.
    - aries1980 6y ago
      Up until the 2000s, in Hungary, CVs and cover letters had to be written by hand. Mostly, because handwriting was considered a precursor to how literate and educated is the candidate.
- dunefox 6y ago
  > No, they are not really useful Pens aren't useful? > it's hard to edit or search through what you wrote on paper As opposed to every other document not written using FPs? I don't even know what your point is here.
  - 098799 6y ago
    > Pens aren't useful? Yes, this is my point. > As opposed to every other document not written using FPs? As opposed to documents not written on paper. Please, read carefully.
    - Enginerrrd 6y ago
      I was also confused. Your first comment was poorly worded to convey the meaning you had intended. More to the point though: > it's hard to edit or search through what you wrote on paper You'd be surprised how fast queries can be done in the type of physical organization systems that existed before computers! People weren't stupid, they came up with many brilliant systems. There's a great art to organization, summary, and consolidation. Maximum flexibility is usually not synonymous with maximum efficiency. And we've never quite mastered the input system for computers. Editing is generally much better on a computer though, but even that shouldn't be overestimated. As humans we are much more often limited by the speed at which we can think, than by the speed with which we can record that information.
    - naavis 6y ago
      I must say I was confused too. You explicitly referred to fountain pens, while everything you said applies to all handwriting.
- tomtheelder 6y ago
  > it's hard to edit or search through what you wrote on paper You shouldn't really handwrite things you need to edit or search through. I would definitely type all "archival" type notes and things. But I still handwrite plenty of stuff. Daily to-dos, retention type notes, and exploratory idea work are all better suited to paper, in my opinion.
joyj2nd 6y ago
In my European home country, all kids in school must write with Fountain pens. At least in Elementary school and as far as I can remember. They may have some style and look good cool, but honestly, I prefer ink rollers. This is one of the best pens I know: https://www.amazon.com/Zebra-Dx5-Liq-Ink-Rollerball/dp/B000TK56MI https://www.amazon.com/Zebra-Dx5-Liq-Ink-Rollerball/dp/B000T...
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  When I was at a school at age ten you had to hand-write a thesis on a subject of your choice, in fountain pen in joined up writing, in order to graduate to using a ball pen or some other more convenient pen. It was called your Master Scribe and I remember all the pupils taking it extremely seriously.
- the_pwner224 6y ago
  I also love rollerballs (bad name since even the shitty 20 cent ballpoints are technically rollerballs). I personally prefer the Uni-Ball Vision Elite, and compared to the cheap but well-regarded fountain Pilot Metropolitan fountain pen (which I used for 6 months before giving up on it), I really prefer the Vision Elite by a large margin. The big 0.8mm ball feels much better to write with, and the ink is really great. While you don't have the same variety in ink as fountain pens, the black is really dark (& waterproof), and Uni-Ball has some nice BLX colors - the dark blue is also great. But the rollerballs are less sensitive to any imperfections in the paper, will write at any angle and rotation, never leak (so I don't need to constantly pay attention to what angle it is in in my pocket), don't get ink all over your fingers, and don't need special handling to take into airplanes. Just much more practical overall, and more of just a tool that works rather than an art piece that needs strict care (analogy). Using rollerballs is more expensive over time; a bit less so if you buy refills instead of a new pen every time. But it's worth the convenience. And while I do keep them close since they're expensive, they're cheap enough that I never have to worry about losing one of the pens. I can afford to buy 12-packs and have 3 pens scattered around the house + a stockpile of extras.
  - Multicomp 6y ago
bambataa 6y ago
Has anyone left-handed successfully used good pens? It’s something I would like but it seems a waste when I know it’ll just become a smudge.
- Broken_Hippo 6y ago
  I don't because I'm not left-handed - but my spouse is left-handed and uses fountain pens. And dip pens. And whatever else will give him writing and/or art he likes. (He does asemic writing in artwork... whole books of nothing but giggerish writing and charts and things). I honestly haven't really paid attention to his method, though. I just know it can be done without smudges everywhere.
- detaro 6y ago
  Been ages since I used a fountain pen, but did for years in school. https://www.nibs.com/content/left-handed-writers https://www.nibs.com/content/left-handed-writers has a few techniques - #5 is close to what I was taught in elementary school. Ink selection also helps, some inks dry a lot quicker than others.
- Multicomp 6y ago
  my brother-in-law has used his first fountain pen, a pilot metropolitan which I gave him about six months ago, and he wrote left handed using the ink that came out of the cartridge and does not seem to have any smudge. I would say his writing style somewhere halfway between hook-handed and left-handed pusher.
- dugditches 6y ago
  There are 'quick dry' inks. Combined with a fine nib(lays down less ink). A TWSBI Eco with a bottle of Noodler's Bernanke would do.
  - bambataa 6y ago
    Thanks -- I'll give that combo a go.
- toohotatopic 6y ago
Multicomp 6y ago
Fountain pen inks are amazingly varied, and combining them with the particular properties of thefountain pen inks are amazingly varied, and combining them with the particular properties of the fountain pens themselves prove quite the rabbit hole of a hobby. Example of this is below, but feel free to skip. Just yesterday, I reached for my custom ink replacement for Parker penman Sapphire and was glad I had it handy. I was cleaning out some boxes and rediscovered my esterbrook SJ pen with a manifold fine nib. It has been restored, but I tend to not put modern inks in vintage pens oh, so having that ink sure was handy. I remember not really liking the pen because it was such a nail to use, but with my current journal being a poetic Earth journal using handmade carbon paper that most fountain pens don't like, this one seems to do much better then any of the rest, and really the only other writing instrument in competition to write on this journal would be a pencil, and hard pencil at that. Silverpoint inkless metal pens are entirely useless, and fountain pens for the most part don't like the uneven paper surface, it's a bit like driving off road in a 4 x 4 sedan, well it can do it, it's not really liking it. It is just interesting to me how even though I prefer my pilot myu 701 and other Japanese pens, because of the variety of nibs available in fountain pens, I can still find a use for a pen that at the time I didn't think I could use.
- kebman 6y ago
  If you want writing excellence, the paper also matters a lot. This is especially so if you're using more specialized equipment, and in particular if you're using inks that are more prone to seeping into the paper. The ability for the paper to only hold the top layer, without "drowning" or seeping in like watercolour, is then paramount. Rough or uneven paper just won't do either. Rather carefully use an ink blotter if the ink doesn't dry fast enough.
potatofarmer45 6y ago
Fountains pens are an experience and a statement. It's fussy in that it takes much longer to dry than most ball point pens, and it has a clear preference for pricy paper. In return, it makes a mundane part of life (writing notes etc) much more fun and personal. My signature ink is the Iroshizuku Asa-Gao. It's a punchy blue ink that comes in a gorgeously slick bottle. Every time I see the bright blue ink on paper, it makes me happy.
- kstrauser 6y ago
  Regarding paper: I bought a Rhodia Webnotebook - no, I don’t know why they called it that - and my fountain pen loves it. It’s the first time in basically my whole life that handwriting has been pleasurable.
- abhayb 6y ago
  Just got a three pack of Iroshizuku in! The tsuki-yo, kon-peki, and take-sumi. Only tried the first so far but it's lovely. Maybe I need to get the set with asa-gao soon? > it has a clear preference for pricy paper Well so do I :)
thomas 6y ago
This is a strange blog post, almost like a Wikipedia page with more references than information. Also no images. Is there a name for this style? Is it very popular?
- williamscs 6y ago
  Martin Fowler has called his website a "bliki" (https://martinfowler.com/bliki/WhatIsaBliki.html https://martinfowler.com/bliki/WhatIsaBliki.html).
ballenf 6y ago
No idea if it’s heretical in the fountain pen world, but I’m a fan of Pilot Varsity disposable fountain pens. They come in both fine and medium points and a variety of colors. One upside is I always know which pen is mine since I’ve never run into anyone else using them. I also have some expensive fountain pens, but don’t take those to work.
- derekp7 6y ago
  The Varsity pens are the only fountain pens that "just work" when I use them. Any other ones I own (Parker, Monteverde, Cross) seems to get dried up if they sit too long. My only complaint about the Varsity pens are they are too light -- I like a bit of weight to mine.
  - Nursie 6y ago
    I wonder if the not-drying-up is to do with the ink solvent mixture? It has a different smell to other inks.
    - mcguire 6y ago
      Possibly, but I've used Noodler's ink in them and it doesn't dry up either. (I left one sitting for nearly a year and started hard but would otherwise write fine. Back to normal after I cleaned it.) I suspect it may be the feed they have.
    - Germanika 6y ago
      It's possible. Another factor is simply how air-tight the seals are. My older fountain pens tend to dry out faster than most modern ones. There are also some pens (Platinum 3776 for example) which are designed to virtually never dry out.
  - Vrondi 6y ago
    My Pilot Prera is always ready to write. Oddly enough the one other fountain pen is my super cheap 1990s Parker Vecto fountain pen. Just always goes.
- 6y ago
qubex 6y ago
I’m a fountain-pen aficionado that was taught to write with fountain pens and cursive writing way back in the eighties and never stopped. Now I have a sizeable collection, but by far my favourite is Faber Castell’s Tamitio which features a collection of italic nibs (I myself use the most modest 1.1 size). https://www.graf-von-faber-castell.com/products/CalligraphysetTamitio/141506 https://www.graf-von-faber-castell.com/products/Calligraphys... I’d like to chime in with an appreciation for Noodler’s ink. I first encountered it when I was in New York but I stocked up and then returned home and found (happily enough) that now it’s very conveniently available online.
- ramimac 6y ago
  I've been using The Parson's Essential[1] with an italic nib for 5+ years, and have to drop a recommendation. Also of interest to anyone exploring transitioning to fountain pens would be the Pilot Vanishing Point[2], which is a retractable fountain pen that is generally well regarded. [1] http://www.mrpen.co.uk/contents/en-uk/p866.html http://www.mrpen.co.uk/contents/en-uk/p866.html [2] http://pilotpen.us/categories/fountain-pens/vanishing-point-fountain/ http://pilotpen.us/categories/fountain-pens/vanishing-point-...
kashyapc 6y ago
Speaking of which ... for the last year, I've been using a combination of these two for my daily note-taking. I'm extremely delighted with them (especially the nib): - Waterman Hémisphère fine nib pen[+]. It costs between 80-105 euros, depending on where you buy. - Waterman "Encre Noir Intense" (Intense Black Ink) [+] https://www.waterman.com/en/hemisphere/160-black-fountain-pen-gt-3501170920619.html https://www.waterman.com/en/hemisphere/160-black-fountain-pe...
bikenaga 6y ago
Here's a fairly extensive ink review: http://www.richardspens.com/ref/care/inks.htm http://www.richardspens.com/ref/care/inks.htm Based on his recommendations, I've been using Waterman Intense Black. It works great: I just write a lots of text, and don't need colors - and importantly dye-based inks are less likely to cause clogs. But one drawback is that the ink isn't water-resistant, so if my notes ever get wet, they're done. I was thinking about trying Noodler's, since a lot of people seem to like their inks. Has anyone who has used the Noodler's Bulletproof inks noticed problems with clogging (or the pens needing frequent cleaning)? (The review I linked mentioned problems with the Buletproofs.)
- scrumbledober 6y ago
  I ran some noodler's bulletproof through my pilot MR for a few months and had no problems
- mcguire 6y ago
  I have mostly used Noodler's; I'm a big fan of water resistance. I have never had any problems. I haven't used Bay State Blue, though. That's supposed to be the ink of the devil.
  - splintercell 6y ago
    Yet so beautiful!
- splintercell 6y ago
  Bulletproof ink means they are archival and forgery proof, if you don't necessarily need to write unforgeable stuff like checks, then you just need to archival inks from Noodler's. But I have used plenty of his inks and other than Baystate Blue none of them truly give you any problem. and if you are into fountain pen and inks nobody should die without using Baystate blue at least once. My favorite are noodler's Henry Hudson blue which is a fountain pen Hospital exclusive ink, and the general of the armies. they both are complimentary things in ways that Henry Hudson blue is blue on writing but greenish on drying. General of the armies is the opposite, it's green on writing and bluish on drying. I have my pens loaded up that Henry Hudson blue and I picked them once a week, and other than priming them a bit there is no problem.
zwieback 6y ago
If you think fountain pen inks are complex you'd be amazed what crazy stuff our inkjet ink chemists come up with.
bitxbit 6y ago
There is https://www.mountainofink.com/ https://www.mountainofink.com/ Probably the most comprehensive ink reference I’ve come across.
- jjgreen 6y ago
  Oh thanks a bunch, that's how many hours of my life I'm going to lose browsing that site?
srik 6y ago
If you have the patience to handle Iron Gall Ink, they are a pleasure like none other. It was the penman's popular choice for good reason. They produce very fine hairlines and enable swift stroke production. Cons wise, they require a good quality paper to reflect those hairlines. Also, given its nib-eating nature, instead of a fountain pen, I'd suggest pairing it with a holder and a good nib. More hassle, but more pleasure. McCafferey's Ink is a great recommendation if anyone would like to try.
- mcguire 6y ago
  https://www.paperinkarts.com/mcaink.html https://www.paperinkarts.com/mcaink.html "* McCaffery's inks are highly acidic and can eat away at nibs. When using this ink, clean your nib thoroughly and often to avoid corrosion. You may also find mold on the surface of the ink, or a dried skin. These developments are natural and do not mean your ink has gone bad. Simply remove the mold or skin, throw it away, and stir the ink well. You are now ready to keep writing!*" Uh, yeah. Glass dip pens are generally available, though I haven't used one. I also have a glass-nibbed fountain pen, but it's mostly for pondering the weirdness of the universe.:-)
  - anonymousse1234 6y ago
    "do not use this ink in fountain pens " This is not a fountain pen ink but recreation of historic inks used with non-fountain pens. For fountain pens try Platinum blue-black, Pelikan 4001 blue-black, Diamine Registrar's.
    - mcguire 6y ago
      Noodler's Air Corps Blue-black, here! :-) I was mostly looking at the mold comment.
ashish01 6y ago
Pilot Namiki Black is also a very well behaved ink and easy on the pen.
- anonymousse1234 6y ago
  Pilot Namiki Blue-Black is cellulose reactive and very permanent yet safe for fountainpens.
- criddell 6y ago
  That's what I use. My only complaint is that it evaporates so quickly. I don't write a lot, so anytime I want to use my pen the first thing I have to do is replace the cartridge and try to get the ink flowing again.
bborud 6y ago
I have quite a few fountain pens - a few that are somewhat expensive, but my top tip is TWSBI. They make unreasonably good pens with large reservoirs. Another tip is Noodlers Ink’s fast-drying “Bernanke Blue” ;-)
- joshvm 6y ago
  I wrote all my university notes with Bernanke Blue, Bulletproof black (I think) and Widow Maker red. I had a few TWSBI pens, which were nice while they lasted, but unfortunately the plastic crazed after a few years of sitting in a box and at least two are now broken. I had the big one and two minis. I'm not sure if that was becuaee I didn't flush the ink out before storage, but something to be aware of. My goto before that (and now) are Uniball Jet Stream. The ink dries faster than you can try and smudge it. Refills are slightly hard to come by in physical stores, but I don't write much these days and they last for ages. I got a nice metal one (Jet Stream Prime, I think, single colour) last time I was in Japan - wasn't too expensive. Very hard to find that version elsewhere, but it's lovely and heavy.
  - bborud 6y ago
    Crazed as in becoming brittle? I keep ink in my pens constantly. My philosophy being that any tool that can’t take the way I use it doesn’t deserve its place. (Pens that don’t work get thrown away mercilessly). The environment where my pens are stored and used is very dry with little variation. Perhaps humidity and temperature is a factor?
    - joshvm 6y ago
      Yep, they just cracked and broke. Maybe more of an issue with the TWSBI because the reservoir is part of the pen. Maybe environmental, but I don't live in a particularly extreme area. I never had an issue while I was using them regularly, and I believe they're reasonably maintainable in that you can strip them down to lubricate. Most of the internal mechanics are also plastic though.
      - 6y ago
komali2 6y ago
Would love a breakdown of ink viscosity so I can finally do a dropper build that doesn't leak.
kstrauser 6y ago
I kept wanting to love fountain pens, and I bought a couple, but the experience was always meh and not really any better (to me) than a decent ballpoint. They certainly didn’t help the writer’s cramp I’d suffered with all my life like I’d heard they would. Then I bought a Lamy Safari on a whim and realized I could barely hold the thing. I did some reading and found out I was using the “lateral tripod pencil grip”[1], but the shape of the Safari’s wedged end really wants you to use the dynamic tripod grip. I fought through forcing myself to adjust the way I hold my pen for a couple of weeks, and what do you know: it really did end my hand cramps. Ballpoint pens push you to hold them vertically. Fountain pens work much better at shallower angles. The difference in grip, and angle, and much lower writing pressure makes a huge difference (for me) in writing comfort. After trying and giving up fountain pens a few times, now I’m sold on them. [1] https://www.ot-mom-learning-activities.com/correct-pencil-grasp.html https://www.ot-mom-learning-activities.com/correct-pencil-gr...
- wenc 6y ago
  Thanks, I didn't know there was a name for that grip. I sort of picked it up by osmosis through watching a ton of youtube videos. I wouldn't say one arrives at that grip automatically, but due to how fountain pen nibs behave and how ink flows, I have noticed many people stumbling upon that grip without instruction. It definitely is different from a ballpoint pen grip which as you've noted is more "hand-crampy". I've a few Lamys but my favorite pens of the last year or so have been TWSBI ECO Fs, an upgrade from Pilot Metro Fs, which I find scratchy. I also have some super cheap Jinhaos that look good on the outside but are leaky. I gather most people buy Jinhaos for the exterior, and switch out the nibs. An astoundingly cheap and surprisingly good fountain pen ($4) is the Japanese-made Platinum Preppy F. They write way better than Pilot Metros. I kind of think Preppys should be the recommended starter pens rather than Metros. I grew up writing with cheap Parker fountain pens in elementary school-- those poor experiences colored my perceptions of pens until I tried better pens. If I had a Preppy, I would have started on my fountain pen journey earlier...
  - cannam 6y ago
    > An astoundingly cheap and surprisingly good fountain pen ($4) is the Japanese-made Platinum Preppy F I just wrote a comment praising cheap Platinum pens as well (though mine's not that cheap!) They must be on to something. > I grew up writing with cheap Parker fountain pens in elementary school-- those poor experiences colored my perceptions I have a fondness for the Parker Jotter, mainly from the fact that my grandmother always used one. I like their simple appearance as well. I have a couple, one of which I use quite a bit, but I agree, the cheap Parker doesn't write as well as the cheap Platinum. Hmm - in fact I think I left a filled Parker Jotter in the desk drawer at work, back in the middle of March...
cannam 6y ago
Much as I like fountain pens (they're more or less the only pens I use) I have a suspicion they're a bit like a mini version of hi-fi - you can spend an arbitrary amount on admittedly beautifully made objects, which you then have to basically pretend are so much better than the cheaper ones. My favourite pen is actually my cheapest - a Platinum Plaisir (a Japanese company - I see the author mentions Platinum pens). I bought it in an airport when leaving Japan in order to use up some left-over cash. It looked a bit crappy and I was surprised to find, first, that the plasticky body was actually metal, just somehow made to look like cheap plastic - and then, that it wrote really well. I still think it looks a bit crappy, but it's a pleasant case of a product being far better than it appears. I still wouldn't advise going to any trouble to find one, though. Something like a Kaweco Sport - almost as cheap - is practically as good and, in the UK at least, much easier to find. The article might be on to something in focusing on ink - that could well be the most important bit, much as the most important bit of your record player is the cartridge (hm, there's an analogy here that isn't quite what I intended). Different inks in the same pen can make or ruin your writing experience.
- Slackwise 6y ago
  As a lefty, the ink's drying speed is key, but also, the size and shape of the nib. Lefties should be using big bulbous bold 1.0+ tip nibs that glide across the page instead of stab into it. Unlike a rolling ball pen, it won't skip or fail to roll with pressure due to the rightward angle-of-attack against the paper, so a proper fountain pen is actually better than most other pens for us lefties. First time experiencing smooth writing in my life. Ultimately, the enemy of lefties is the pointy tip, and the rolling ball that's expected to be rolled against the paper, not pushed against it. Felt-tip pens work just fine for us, so those pen Sharpies are alright, but so are the 1.0 bold tip roller ball pens from Pilot, at least all the Pilots I've tried. Can't say all the others work as well.
  - Wistar 6y ago
    A friend of mine, a lefty, built a little writing table with a surface warmed by a small heating pad to dry his fountain pen ink rapidly. He used a smooth, rubber-like, or maybe vinyl, drafting table mat to cover the writing surface. It worked for him. I thought it was ingenious.
croqaz 6y ago
Wow, I had no idea my crappy post ended on Hacker news! I just collected a bunch of info and links for myself :) I guess I have to update the post with some pictures, at least...
IMAYousaf 6y ago
Muji makes a fantastic, beginner friendly Fountain Pen. I use mine daily, and I bought it for a lot of my friends who expressed interest in it. It's only $15. Image: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/1SvaitlOH40/maxresdefault.jpg https://i.ytimg.com/vi/1SvaitlOH40/maxresdefault.jpg Link to Product: https://www.muji.us/store/aluminum-round-fountain-pen.html https://www.muji.us/store/aluminum-round-fountain-pen.html

153 points by polm23 6y ago

Surprising to see this on HN. Yes, fountain pens are a rabbit hole. No, they are not really useful - it's hard to edit or search through what you wrote on paper - but the feeling while writing is pretty amazing.

chrisseaton 6y ago
I have to use a fountain pen at work to write certain documents, so knowing about good pens is very useful.
- jaclaz 6y ago
  Yep, and I am old enough to have actually worked several years at a time when certain official documents/registers had to be hand-written. I am not talking of one line per day, I am talking of tens of pages per day. When you have to write at length (hours per day) there is nothing as "light" as a fountain pen, using ball pen or rollers invariably get your hand more tired.
  - aries1980 6y ago
    Up until the 2000s, in Hungary, CVs and cover letters had to be written by hand. Mostly, because handwriting was considered a precursor to how literate and educated is the candidate.
dunefox 6y ago
> No, they are not really useful Pens aren't useful? > it's hard to edit or search through what you wrote on paper As opposed to every other document not written using FPs? I don't even know what your point is here.
- 098799 6y ago
  > Pens aren't useful? Yes, this is my point. > As opposed to every other document not written using FPs? As opposed to documents not written on paper. Please, read carefully.
  - Enginerrrd 6y ago
    I was also confused. Your first comment was poorly worded to convey the meaning you had intended. More to the point though: > it's hard to edit or search through what you wrote on paper You'd be surprised how fast queries can be done in the type of physical organization systems that existed before computers! People weren't stupid, they came up with many brilliant systems. There's a great art to organization, summary, and consolidation. Maximum flexibility is usually not synonymous with maximum efficiency. And we've never quite mastered the input system for computers. Editing is generally much better on a computer though, but even that shouldn't be overestimated. As humans we are much more often limited by the speed at which we can think, than by the speed with which we can record that information.
  - naavis 6y ago
    I must say I was confused too. You explicitly referred to fountain pens, while everything you said applies to all handwriting.
tomtheelder 6y ago
> it's hard to edit or search through what you wrote on paper You shouldn't really handwrite things you need to edit or search through. I would definitely type all "archival" type notes and things. But I still handwrite plenty of stuff. Daily to-dos, retention type notes, and exploratory idea work are all better suited to paper, in my opinion.

joyj2nd 6y ago

In my European home country, all kids in school must write with Fountain pens. At least in Elementary school and as far as I can remember. They may have some style and look good cool, but honestly, I prefer ink rollers. This is one of the best pens I know: https://www.amazon.com/Zebra-Dx5-Liq-Ink-Rollerball/dp/B000TK56MI https://www.amazon.com/Zebra-Dx5-Liq-Ink-Rollerball/dp/B000T...

chrisseaton 6y ago
When I was at a school at age ten you had to hand-write a thesis on a subject of your choice, in fountain pen in joined up writing, in order to graduate to using a ball pen or some other more convenient pen. It was called your Master Scribe and I remember all the pupils taking it extremely seriously.
the_pwner224 6y ago
I also love rollerballs (bad name since even the shitty 20 cent ballpoints are technically rollerballs). I personally prefer the Uni-Ball Vision Elite, and compared to the cheap but well-regarded fountain Pilot Metropolitan fountain pen (which I used for 6 months before giving up on it), I really prefer the Vision Elite by a large margin. The big 0.8mm ball feels much better to write with, and the ink is really great. While you don't have the same variety in ink as fountain pens, the black is really dark (& waterproof), and Uni-Ball has some nice BLX colors - the dark blue is also great. But the rollerballs are less sensitive to any imperfections in the paper, will write at any angle and rotation, never leak (so I don't need to constantly pay attention to what angle it is in in my pocket), don't get ink all over your fingers, and don't need special handling to take into airplanes. Just much more practical overall, and more of just a tool that works rather than an art piece that needs strict care (analogy). Using rollerballs is more expensive over time; a bit less so if you buy refills instead of a new pen every time. But it's worth the convenience. And while I do keep them close since they're expensive, they're cheap enough that I never have to worry about losing one of the pens. I can afford to buy 12-packs and have 3 pens scattered around the house + a stockpile of extras.
- Multicomp 6y ago

bambataa 6y ago

Has anyone left-handed successfully used good pens? It’s something I would like but it seems a waste when I know it’ll just become a smudge.

Broken_Hippo 6y ago
I don't because I'm not left-handed - but my spouse is left-handed and uses fountain pens. And dip pens. And whatever else will give him writing and/or art he likes. (He does asemic writing in artwork... whole books of nothing but giggerish writing and charts and things). I honestly haven't really paid attention to his method, though. I just know it can be done without smudges everywhere.
detaro 6y ago
Been ages since I used a fountain pen, but did for years in school. https://www.nibs.com/content/left-handed-writers https://www.nibs.com/content/left-handed-writers has a few techniques - #5 is close to what I was taught in elementary school. Ink selection also helps, some inks dry a lot quicker than others.
Multicomp 6y ago
my brother-in-law has used his first fountain pen, a pilot metropolitan which I gave him about six months ago, and he wrote left handed using the ink that came out of the cartridge and does not seem to have any smudge. I would say his writing style somewhere halfway between hook-handed and left-handed pusher.
dugditches 6y ago
There are 'quick dry' inks. Combined with a fine nib(lays down less ink). A TWSBI Eco with a bottle of Noodler's Bernanke would do.
- bambataa 6y ago
  Thanks -- I'll give that combo a go.
toohotatopic 6y ago

Multicomp 6y ago

Fountain pen inks are amazingly varied, and combining them with the particular properties of thefountain pen inks are amazingly varied, and combining them with the particular properties of the fountain pens themselves prove quite the rabbit hole of a hobby. Example of this is below, but feel free to skip. Just yesterday, I reached for my custom ink replacement for Parker penman Sapphire and was glad I had it handy. I was cleaning out some boxes and rediscovered my esterbrook SJ pen with a manifold fine nib. It has been restored, but I tend to not put modern inks in vintage pens oh, so having that ink sure was handy. I remember not really liking the pen because it was such a nail to use, but with my current journal being a poetic Earth journal using handmade carbon paper that most fountain pens don't like, this one seems to do much better then any of the rest, and really the only other writing instrument in competition to write on this journal would be a pencil, and hard pencil at that. Silverpoint inkless metal pens are entirely useless, and fountain pens for the most part don't like the uneven paper surface, it's a bit like driving off road in a 4 x 4 sedan, well it can do it, it's not really liking it. It is just interesting to me how even though I prefer my pilot myu 701 and other Japanese pens, because of the variety of nibs available in fountain pens, I can still find a use for a pen that at the time I didn't think I could use.

kebman 6y ago
If you want writing excellence, the paper also matters a lot. This is especially so if you're using more specialized equipment, and in particular if you're using inks that are more prone to seeping into the paper. The ability for the paper to only hold the top layer, without "drowning" or seeping in like watercolour, is then paramount. Rough or uneven paper just won't do either. Rather carefully use an ink blotter if the ink doesn't dry fast enough.

potatofarmer45 6y ago

Fountains pens are an experience and a statement. It's fussy in that it takes much longer to dry than most ball point pens, and it has a clear preference for pricy paper. In return, it makes a mundane part of life (writing notes etc) much more fun and personal. My signature ink is the Iroshizuku Asa-Gao. It's a punchy blue ink that comes in a gorgeously slick bottle. Every time I see the bright blue ink on paper, it makes me happy.

kstrauser 6y ago
Regarding paper: I bought a Rhodia Webnotebook - no, I don’t know why they called it that - and my fountain pen loves it. It’s the first time in basically my whole life that handwriting has been pleasurable.
abhayb 6y ago
Just got a three pack of Iroshizuku in! The tsuki-yo, kon-peki, and take-sumi. Only tried the first so far but it's lovely. Maybe I need to get the set with asa-gao soon? > it has a clear preference for pricy paper Well so do I :)

thomas 6y ago

This is a strange blog post, almost like a Wikipedia page with more references than information. Also no images. Is there a name for this style? Is it very popular?

williamscs 6y ago
Martin Fowler has called his website a "bliki" (https://martinfowler.com/bliki/WhatIsaBliki.html https://martinfowler.com/bliki/WhatIsaBliki.html).

ballenf 6y ago

No idea if it’s heretical in the fountain pen world, but I’m a fan of Pilot Varsity disposable fountain pens. They come in both fine and medium points and a variety of colors. One upside is I always know which pen is mine since I’ve never run into anyone else using them. I also have some expensive fountain pens, but don’t take those to work.

derekp7 6y ago
The Varsity pens are the only fountain pens that "just work" when I use them. Any other ones I own (Parker, Monteverde, Cross) seems to get dried up if they sit too long. My only complaint about the Varsity pens are they are too light -- I like a bit of weight to mine.
- Nursie 6y ago
  I wonder if the not-drying-up is to do with the ink solvent mixture? It has a different smell to other inks.
  - mcguire 6y ago
    Possibly, but I've used Noodler's ink in them and it doesn't dry up either. (I left one sitting for nearly a year and started hard but would otherwise write fine. Back to normal after I cleaned it.) I suspect it may be the feed they have.
  - Germanika 6y ago
    It's possible. Another factor is simply how air-tight the seals are. My older fountain pens tend to dry out faster than most modern ones. There are also some pens (Platinum 3776 for example) which are designed to virtually never dry out.
- Vrondi 6y ago
  My Pilot Prera is always ready to write. Oddly enough the one other fountain pen is my super cheap 1990s Parker Vecto fountain pen. Just always goes.
6y ago

qubex 6y ago

I’m a fountain-pen aficionado that was taught to write with fountain pens and cursive writing way back in the eighties and never stopped. Now I have a sizeable collection, but by far my favourite is Faber Castell’s Tamitio which features a collection of italic nibs (I myself use the most modest 1.1 size). https://www.graf-von-faber-castell.com/products/CalligraphysetTamitio/141506 https://www.graf-von-faber-castell.com/products/Calligraphys... I’d like to chime in with an appreciation for Noodler’s ink. I first encountered it when I was in New York but I stocked up and then returned home and found (happily enough) that now it’s very conveniently available online.

ramimac 6y ago
I've been using The Parson's Essential[1] with an italic nib for 5+ years, and have to drop a recommendation. Also of interest to anyone exploring transitioning to fountain pens would be the Pilot Vanishing Point[2], which is a retractable fountain pen that is generally well regarded. [1] http://www.mrpen.co.uk/contents/en-uk/p866.html http://www.mrpen.co.uk/contents/en-uk/p866.html [2] http://pilotpen.us/categories/fountain-pens/vanishing-point-fountain/ http://pilotpen.us/categories/fountain-pens/vanishing-point-...

kashyapc 6y ago

Speaking of which ... for the last year, I've been using a combination of these two for my daily note-taking. I'm extremely delighted with them (especially the nib): - Waterman Hémisphère fine nib pen[+]. It costs between 80-105 euros, depending on where you buy. - Waterman "Encre Noir Intense" (Intense Black Ink) [+] https://www.waterman.com/en/hemisphere/160-black-fountain-pen-gt-3501170920619.html https://www.waterman.com/en/hemisphere/160-black-fountain-pe...

bikenaga 6y ago

Here's a fairly extensive ink review: http://www.richardspens.com/ref/care/inks.htm http://www.richardspens.com/ref/care/inks.htm Based on his recommendations, I've been using Waterman Intense Black. It works great: I just write a lots of text, and don't need colors - and importantly dye-based inks are less likely to cause clogs. But one drawback is that the ink isn't water-resistant, so if my notes ever get wet, they're done. I was thinking about trying Noodler's, since a lot of people seem to like their inks. Has anyone who has used the Noodler's Bulletproof inks noticed problems with clogging (or the pens needing frequent cleaning)? (The review I linked mentioned problems with the Buletproofs.)

scrumbledober 6y ago
I ran some noodler's bulletproof through my pilot MR for a few months and had no problems
mcguire 6y ago
I have mostly used Noodler's; I'm a big fan of water resistance. I have never had any problems. I haven't used Bay State Blue, though. That's supposed to be the ink of the devil.
- splintercell 6y ago
  Yet so beautiful!
splintercell 6y ago
Bulletproof ink means they are archival and forgery proof, if you don't necessarily need to write unforgeable stuff like checks, then you just need to archival inks from Noodler's. But I have used plenty of his inks and other than Baystate Blue none of them truly give you any problem. and if you are into fountain pen and inks nobody should die without using Baystate blue at least once. My favorite are noodler's Henry Hudson blue which is a fountain pen Hospital exclusive ink, and the general of the armies. they both are complimentary things in ways that Henry Hudson blue is blue on writing but greenish on drying. General of the armies is the opposite, it's green on writing and bluish on drying. I have my pens loaded up that Henry Hudson blue and I picked them once a week, and other than priming them a bit there is no problem.

zwieback 6y ago

If you think fountain pen inks are complex you'd be amazed what crazy stuff our inkjet ink chemists come up with.

bitxbit 6y ago

There is https://www.mountainofink.com/ https://www.mountainofink.com/ Probably the most comprehensive ink reference I’ve come across.

jjgreen 6y ago
Oh thanks a bunch, that's how many hours of my life I'm going to lose browsing that site?

srik 6y ago

If you have the patience to handle Iron Gall Ink, they are a pleasure like none other. It was the penman's popular choice for good reason. They produce very fine hairlines and enable swift stroke production. Cons wise, they require a good quality paper to reflect those hairlines. Also, given its nib-eating nature, instead of a fountain pen, I'd suggest pairing it with a holder and a good nib. More hassle, but more pleasure. McCafferey's Ink is a great recommendation if anyone would like to try.

mcguire 6y ago
https://www.paperinkarts.com/mcaink.html https://www.paperinkarts.com/mcaink.html "* McCaffery's inks are highly acidic and can eat away at nibs. When using this ink, clean your nib thoroughly and often to avoid corrosion. You may also find mold on the surface of the ink, or a dried skin. These developments are natural and do not mean your ink has gone bad. Simply remove the mold or skin, throw it away, and stir the ink well. You are now ready to keep writing!*" Uh, yeah. Glass dip pens are generally available, though I haven't used one. I also have a glass-nibbed fountain pen, but it's mostly for pondering the weirdness of the universe.:-)
- anonymousse1234 6y ago
  "do not use this ink in fountain pens " This is not a fountain pen ink but recreation of historic inks used with non-fountain pens. For fountain pens try Platinum blue-black, Pelikan 4001 blue-black, Diamine Registrar's.
  - mcguire 6y ago
    Noodler's Air Corps Blue-black, here! :-) I was mostly looking at the mold comment.

ashish01 6y ago

Pilot Namiki Black is also a very well behaved ink and easy on the pen.

anonymousse1234 6y ago
Pilot Namiki Blue-Black is cellulose reactive and very permanent yet safe for fountainpens.
criddell 6y ago
That's what I use. My only complaint is that it evaporates so quickly. I don't write a lot, so anytime I want to use my pen the first thing I have to do is replace the cartridge and try to get the ink flowing again.

bborud 6y ago

I have quite a few fountain pens - a few that are somewhat expensive, but my top tip is TWSBI. They make unreasonably good pens with large reservoirs. Another tip is Noodlers Ink’s fast-drying “Bernanke Blue” ;-)

joshvm 6y ago
I wrote all my university notes with Bernanke Blue, Bulletproof black (I think) and Widow Maker red. I had a few TWSBI pens, which were nice while they lasted, but unfortunately the plastic crazed after a few years of sitting in a box and at least two are now broken. I had the big one and two minis. I'm not sure if that was becuaee I didn't flush the ink out before storage, but something to be aware of. My goto before that (and now) are Uniball Jet Stream. The ink dries faster than you can try and smudge it. Refills are slightly hard to come by in physical stores, but I don't write much these days and they last for ages. I got a nice metal one (Jet Stream Prime, I think, single colour) last time I was in Japan - wasn't too expensive. Very hard to find that version elsewhere, but it's lovely and heavy.
- bborud 6y ago
  Crazed as in becoming brittle? I keep ink in my pens constantly. My philosophy being that any tool that can’t take the way I use it doesn’t deserve its place. (Pens that don’t work get thrown away mercilessly). The environment where my pens are stored and used is very dry with little variation. Perhaps humidity and temperature is a factor?
  - joshvm 6y ago
    Yep, they just cracked and broke. Maybe more of an issue with the TWSBI because the reservoir is part of the pen. Maybe environmental, but I don't live in a particularly extreme area. I never had an issue while I was using them regularly, and I believe they're reasonably maintainable in that you can strip them down to lubricate. Most of the internal mechanics are also plastic though.
    - 6y ago

komali2 6y ago

Would love a breakdown of ink viscosity so I can finally do a dropper build that doesn't leak.

kstrauser 6y ago

I kept wanting to love fountain pens, and I bought a couple, but the experience was always meh and not really any better (to me) than a decent ballpoint. They certainly didn’t help the writer’s cramp I’d suffered with all my life like I’d heard they would. Then I bought a Lamy Safari on a whim and realized I could barely hold the thing. I did some reading and found out I was using the “lateral tripod pencil grip”[1], but the shape of the Safari’s wedged end really wants you to use the dynamic tripod grip. I fought through forcing myself to adjust the way I hold my pen for a couple of weeks, and what do you know: it really did end my hand cramps. Ballpoint pens push you to hold them vertically. Fountain pens work much better at shallower angles. The difference in grip, and angle, and much lower writing pressure makes a huge difference (for me) in writing comfort. After trying and giving up fountain pens a few times, now I’m sold on them. [1] https://www.ot-mom-learning-activities.com/correct-pencil-grasp.html https://www.ot-mom-learning-activities.com/correct-pencil-gr...

wenc 6y ago
Thanks, I didn't know there was a name for that grip. I sort of picked it up by osmosis through watching a ton of youtube videos. I wouldn't say one arrives at that grip automatically, but due to how fountain pen nibs behave and how ink flows, I have noticed many people stumbling upon that grip without instruction. It definitely is different from a ballpoint pen grip which as you've noted is more "hand-crampy". I've a few Lamys but my favorite pens of the last year or so have been TWSBI ECO Fs, an upgrade from Pilot Metro Fs, which I find scratchy. I also have some super cheap Jinhaos that look good on the outside but are leaky. I gather most people buy Jinhaos for the exterior, and switch out the nibs. An astoundingly cheap and surprisingly good fountain pen ($4) is the Japanese-made Platinum Preppy F. They write way better than Pilot Metros. I kind of think Preppys should be the recommended starter pens rather than Metros. I grew up writing with cheap Parker fountain pens in elementary school-- those poor experiences colored my perceptions of pens until I tried better pens. If I had a Preppy, I would have started on my fountain pen journey earlier...
- cannam 6y ago
  > An astoundingly cheap and surprisingly good fountain pen ($4) is the Japanese-made Platinum Preppy F I just wrote a comment praising cheap Platinum pens as well (though mine's not that cheap!) They must be on to something. > I grew up writing with cheap Parker fountain pens in elementary school-- those poor experiences colored my perceptions I have a fondness for the Parker Jotter, mainly from the fact that my grandmother always used one. I like their simple appearance as well. I have a couple, one of which I use quite a bit, but I agree, the cheap Parker doesn't write as well as the cheap Platinum. Hmm - in fact I think I left a filled Parker Jotter in the desk drawer at work, back in the middle of March...

cannam 6y ago

Much as I like fountain pens (they're more or less the only pens I use) I have a suspicion they're a bit like a mini version of hi-fi - you can spend an arbitrary amount on admittedly beautifully made objects, which you then have to basically pretend are so much better than the cheaper ones. My favourite pen is actually my cheapest - a Platinum Plaisir (a Japanese company - I see the author mentions Platinum pens). I bought it in an airport when leaving Japan in order to use up some left-over cash. It looked a bit crappy and I was surprised to find, first, that the plasticky body was actually metal, just somehow made to look like cheap plastic - and then, that it wrote really well. I still think it looks a bit crappy, but it's a pleasant case of a product being far better than it appears. I still wouldn't advise going to any trouble to find one, though. Something like a Kaweco Sport - almost as cheap - is practically as good and, in the UK at least, much easier to find. The article might be on to something in focusing on ink - that could well be the most important bit, much as the most important bit of your record player is the cartridge (hm, there's an analogy here that isn't quite what I intended). Different inks in the same pen can make or ruin your writing experience.

Slackwise 6y ago
As a lefty, the ink's drying speed is key, but also, the size and shape of the nib. Lefties should be using big bulbous bold 1.0+ tip nibs that glide across the page instead of stab into it. Unlike a rolling ball pen, it won't skip or fail to roll with pressure due to the rightward angle-of-attack against the paper, so a proper fountain pen is actually better than most other pens for us lefties. First time experiencing smooth writing in my life. Ultimately, the enemy of lefties is the pointy tip, and the rolling ball that's expected to be rolled against the paper, not pushed against it. Felt-tip pens work just fine for us, so those pen Sharpies are alright, but so are the 1.0 bold tip roller ball pens from Pilot, at least all the Pilots I've tried. Can't say all the others work as well.
- Wistar 6y ago
  A friend of mine, a lefty, built a little writing table with a surface warmed by a small heating pad to dry his fountain pen ink rapidly. He used a smooth, rubber-like, or maybe vinyl, drafting table mat to cover the writing surface. It worked for him. I thought it was ingenious.

croqaz 6y ago

Wow, I had no idea my crappy post ended on Hacker news! I just collected a bunch of info and links for myself :) I guess I have to update the post with some pictures, at least...

IMAYousaf 6y ago

Muji makes a fantastic, beginner friendly Fountain Pen. I use mine daily, and I bought it for a lot of my friends who expressed interest in it. It's only $15. Image: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/1SvaitlOH40/maxresdefault.jpg https://i.ytimg.com/vi/1SvaitlOH40/maxresdefault.jpg Link to Product: https://www.muji.us/store/aluminum-round-fountain-pen.html https://www.muji.us/store/aluminum-round-fountain-pen.html