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I would love to have a good e-paper laptop for coding, reading and communicating. I actually consider today (and even 5-yr-old) e-paper displays perfectly usabl

I would love to have a good e-paper laptop for coding, reading and communicating. I actually consider today (and even 5-yr-old) e-paper displays perfectly usable for all real tasks except watching video and playing realtime games. Compilers and editors (and web pages) should change to avoid unnecessary output and require less screen updates though (this would actually be great anyway - whatever kind of screen I have I prefer unnecessary presentation dynamicity to be avoided).

moviuro 6y ago
ed(1) is plenty quiet already. https://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed-msg.html https://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed-msg.html
rrrrrrrrrrrryan 6y ago
I've seen a couple who hacked together setups using Android e-ink tablets, but I'd love to see someone make (and sell) a product with a little more polish. The main barrier is that almost all modern GUIs depend on high refresh rates, but it's not hard to imagine a GUI designed from the ground-up for ePaper. Little-to-no transitions, pagination instead of scrolling, maybe a customized version of Firefox with a prominent Readability toggle, etc
- scrollaway 6y ago
  If you two are serious about this, you'll defintely want to check out Technology Connections' series on e-ink: (quick intro): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytpRnRke6I0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytpRnRke6I0 (starting the breakdown): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NfX0vlCa4k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NfX0vlCa4k He talks about that exact concept and moves on to do real-world testing and setup of a very specific tablet usable as an external display. It's exactly as you say: Hacky and unpolished. But I found it extremely informative.
- iCarrot 6y ago
  I'm aware of some options: The Boox Max 3 e-ink tablet can be used as an external monitor (HDMI connection) with good refresh rate. Dasung Paperlike 3 is a dedicated e-ink external monitor that can actually play video with really good refresh rate. Waveshare also makes e-ink external monitor, not as good as the Paperlike but coming at half the price.
- enay 6y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised if the e-ink display market exploded in the near future with Dasung getting the refresh rate into usable territory and the availability of color e-ink. I been trying a couple of things to help with eye fatigue and the following helped me quite a bit: setting up "Breaks For Eyes" for osx to remind about taking breaks, switching to the light "Brutalist" theme for emacs and moving most of my longform reading to a Boox e-ink tablet, though I wish the Android Pocket app would support pagination and there was a good Reader-mode-by-default browser.
  - qwerty456127 6y ago
    > getting the refresh rate into usable territory Doesn't unnecessary refresh deterioration the e-ink display and diminish its power efficiency? I really see no reason for the display to refresh until the actual information you need to view changes. What do you need a higher refresh rate for? Wobbly window effects, smooth scrolling, verbose build output and intense action games? I really don't want the screens to adapt by increasing refresh rates, I want the software to adapt by ditching scrolling for pagination, giving up unnecessary visual effects, decreasing verbosity (only displaying what I really want to see) etc.
    - enay 6y ago
      You're right, I really meant latency here.
esperent 6y ago
My old Kobo Aura e-reader (gen 2 I think, amazing device) had a browser built-in. On one occasion I had to use it to log in and retrieve flight details when my phone battery died. That was probably my most frustrating tech experience of the last five years. Partly, the browser app was not great, but also because every single action required multiple 1-second long refreshes of the screen. Type a letter? Refresh. Scroll? Multiple refresh. Zoom? Multiple refresh. Select a button? Multiple refresh. Press the button? ... you get the picture. As you say, every app and website would need to be completely redesigned to work with e-paper. I don't see that happening, but even then typing or editing text with a long delay is very annoying, as anyone who has used SSH over a slow connection will tell you.
- megous 6y ago
  > As you say, every app and website would need to be completely redesigned to work with e-paper. Are you sure? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xqkWga0PFo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xqkWga0PFo
- qwerty456127 6y ago
  > Type a letter? Refresh. Scroll? Multiple refresh. Zoom? Multiple refresh. Select a button? Multiple refresh. Press the button? That's because the damn smooth visual effects. Most of the transitions between these states are animated in a multiple number of frames. There would be no problem if it switched straight to the target state. Also scrolling should be replaced with pagination and zooming should ask you to enter the percentage rather than let you zoom visually. > As you say, every app and website would need to be completely redesigned to work with e-paper. I really wish every app to be designed that way anyway - that would mean less of pointless fun but much more of eye and brain comfort. I don't know if there is a scientific paper on this but it feels like moving stuff depletes brain resources much faster, causing more stress and attention deficit. The only thing I want displayed is what really needs to be displayed (exactly what I have came to view + some useful auxiliary information perhaps). The only thing to update at any given moment of time is what really needs to be updated. As for smooth transition visual effects I have always hated them altogether and always disabled them on every PC I used.
buzzkillington 6y ago
I use termux and boox 3 for this and it works amazingly well. The main reason why I haven't switched 100% to not using a laptop is that I haven't found a portable keyboard to go with it yet.
rorykoehler 6y ago
I'm in the market for an external display to be used for text/coding only, in portrait mode. An e-paper display would be ideal. A quick search just seems to show that these displays are only sold as modules and no one is selling a finished product unless you go for something completely over-featured (e.g. wacom tablet). Do you have any recommendations?
BenSwanson 6y ago
I recently got a Likebook Mars and since it's got Android 6 and Google Play store, it works perfectly out of the box for my purposes (emails, reading, writing). Not gonna replace your computer any time soon, but great for focusing on one simple task, would highly recommend: https://goodereader.com/blog/electronic-readers/boyue-likebook-mars-e-reader-review#:~:text=The%20Boyue%20Likebook%20Mars%20is,it%20all%20like%20a%20champ https://goodereader.com/blog/electronic-readers/boyue-likebo....

moviuro 6y ago

ed(1) is plenty quiet already. https://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed-msg.html https://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed-msg.html

rrrrrrrrrrrryan 6y ago

I've seen a couple who hacked together setups using Android e-ink tablets, but I'd love to see someone make (and sell) a product with a little more polish. The main barrier is that almost all modern GUIs depend on high refresh rates, but it's not hard to imagine a GUI designed from the ground-up for ePaper. Little-to-no transitions, pagination instead of scrolling, maybe a customized version of Firefox with a prominent Readability toggle, etc

scrollaway 6y ago
If you two are serious about this, you'll defintely want to check out Technology Connections' series on e-ink: (quick intro): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytpRnRke6I0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytpRnRke6I0 (starting the breakdown): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NfX0vlCa4k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NfX0vlCa4k He talks about that exact concept and moves on to do real-world testing and setup of a very specific tablet usable as an external display. It's exactly as you say: Hacky and unpolished. But I found it extremely informative.
iCarrot 6y ago
I'm aware of some options: The Boox Max 3 e-ink tablet can be used as an external monitor (HDMI connection) with good refresh rate. Dasung Paperlike 3 is a dedicated e-ink external monitor that can actually play video with really good refresh rate. Waveshare also makes e-ink external monitor, not as good as the Paperlike but coming at half the price.
enay 6y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if the e-ink display market exploded in the near future with Dasung getting the refresh rate into usable territory and the availability of color e-ink. I been trying a couple of things to help with eye fatigue and the following helped me quite a bit: setting up "Breaks For Eyes" for osx to remind about taking breaks, switching to the light "Brutalist" theme for emacs and moving most of my longform reading to a Boox e-ink tablet, though I wish the Android Pocket app would support pagination and there was a good Reader-mode-by-default browser.
- qwerty456127 6y ago
  > getting the refresh rate into usable territory Doesn't unnecessary refresh deterioration the e-ink display and diminish its power efficiency? I really see no reason for the display to refresh until the actual information you need to view changes. What do you need a higher refresh rate for? Wobbly window effects, smooth scrolling, verbose build output and intense action games? I really don't want the screens to adapt by increasing refresh rates, I want the software to adapt by ditching scrolling for pagination, giving up unnecessary visual effects, decreasing verbosity (only displaying what I really want to see) etc.
  - enay 6y ago
    You're right, I really meant latency here.

esperent 6y ago

My old Kobo Aura e-reader (gen 2 I think, amazing device) had a browser built-in. On one occasion I had to use it to log in and retrieve flight details when my phone battery died. That was probably my most frustrating tech experience of the last five years. Partly, the browser app was not great, but also because every single action required multiple 1-second long refreshes of the screen. Type a letter? Refresh. Scroll? Multiple refresh. Zoom? Multiple refresh. Select a button? Multiple refresh. Press the button? ... you get the picture. As you say, every app and website would need to be completely redesigned to work with e-paper. I don't see that happening, but even then typing or editing text with a long delay is very annoying, as anyone who has used SSH over a slow connection will tell you.

megous 6y ago
> As you say, every app and website would need to be completely redesigned to work with e-paper. Are you sure? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xqkWga0PFo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xqkWga0PFo
qwerty456127 6y ago
> Type a letter? Refresh. Scroll? Multiple refresh. Zoom? Multiple refresh. Select a button? Multiple refresh. Press the button? That's because the damn smooth visual effects. Most of the transitions between these states are animated in a multiple number of frames. There would be no problem if it switched straight to the target state. Also scrolling should be replaced with pagination and zooming should ask you to enter the percentage rather than let you zoom visually. > As you say, every app and website would need to be completely redesigned to work with e-paper. I really wish every app to be designed that way anyway - that would mean less of pointless fun but much more of eye and brain comfort. I don't know if there is a scientific paper on this but it feels like moving stuff depletes brain resources much faster, causing more stress and attention deficit. The only thing I want displayed is what really needs to be displayed (exactly what I have came to view + some useful auxiliary information perhaps). The only thing to update at any given moment of time is what really needs to be updated. As for smooth transition visual effects I have always hated them altogether and always disabled them on every PC I used.

buzzkillington 6y ago

I use termux and boox 3 for this and it works amazingly well. The main reason why I haven't switched 100% to not using a laptop is that I haven't found a portable keyboard to go with it yet.

rorykoehler 6y ago

I'm in the market for an external display to be used for text/coding only, in portrait mode. An e-paper display would be ideal. A quick search just seems to show that these displays are only sold as modules and no one is selling a finished product unless you go for something completely over-featured (e.g. wacom tablet). Do you have any recommendations?

BenSwanson 6y ago

I recently got a Likebook Mars and since it's got Android 6 and Google Play store, it works perfectly out of the box for my purposes (emails, reading, writing). Not gonna replace your computer any time soon, but great for focusing on one simple task, would highly recommend: https://goodereader.com/blog/electronic-readers/boyue-likebook-mars-e-reader-review#:~:text=The%20Boyue%20Likebook%20Mars%20is,it%20all%20like%20a%20champ https://goodereader.com/blog/electronic-readers/boyue-likebo....