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1. Could you give a few examples of libraries that can’t be made in Rust due to lack of abstraction compared to C++? GUI libraries apart, I can’t think of anyth

1. Could you give a few examples of libraries that can’t be made in Rust due to lack of abstraction compared to C++? GUI libraries apart, I can’t think of anything offhand. 2. True, but growth curves are rarely linear. Here’s a rough proxy on users - the number of subscribers to /r/rust - https://subredditstats.com/r/Rust https://subredditstats.com/r/Rust. Look at the growth between 2014-18 and 2018-2020. You’re extrapolating on current growth rate, but that may increase in future. 3. “Ambitious”. Nothing I’ve seen precludes using Rust for ambitious projects. In fact, seeing the experience of Dropbox, Mozilla, Facebook and others, there are some ambitious projects that could only have been done in Rust. I’m gonna say [citation needed]. I agree with Stroustrup and look forward to the day people complain about Rust :)

papaf 6y ago
1. Could you give a few examples of libraries that can’t be made in Rust due to lack of abstraction compared to C++? I'm guessing, but I think that something like Armadillo[1] would not be possible on stable Rust. Something like Catch[2] might also difficult to make ergonomic. I don't program in C++ anymore and I would personally live with the lack of expression/abstraction for a safer language though. [1] http://arma.sourceforge.net/speed.html http://arma.sourceforge.net/speed.html [2] https://github.com/catchorg/Catch2/blob/master/docs/tutorial.md#top https://github.com/catchorg/Catch2/blob/master/docs/tutorial...
- adamnemecek 6y ago
  Why are they impossible in Rust? Are you aware of Rust's macros right?
  - ncmncm 6y ago
    Rust macros know nothing about types, but types are what do all the work at compile time.
    - adamnemecek 6y ago
      Do they have to know about types?
      - ncmncm 6y ago
        Only to build designs that today are possible only in C++. Type-aware macros might not be the best way to implement the features needed to match C++.
- 0xFluegel 6y ago
  Can you elaborate on why Catch would be impossible or unergonomic? It's a test framework, right? Why would one even use it instead of the normal rust test framework? Also, how is it ergonomic? I'd agree if you say that it's (one of?) the best for C++, and it's also my go-to option, but ergonomic?
saurik 6y ago
I am under the impression that Rust is lacking even the most basic level of dependent typing: being able to template over a value; pretty much every typesafe buffer library I have ever written uses this to make Random<32>() return not just "a buffer" but "a buffer of size 32", which makes doing parsing of various packet formats and combining sources of information a lot more reasonable. (I am also under the impression that the Rust people intend to fix this lacking, but until then I know I am going to feel a bit crippled.)
- steveklabnik 6y ago
  The basics are in nightly, but yes, not yet. We’ll get there.

papaf 6y ago

1. Could you give a few examples of libraries that can’t be made in Rust due to lack of abstraction compared to C++? I'm guessing, but I think that something like Armadillo[1] would not be possible on stable Rust. Something like Catch[2] might also difficult to make ergonomic. I don't program in C++ anymore and I would personally live with the lack of expression/abstraction for a safer language though. [1] http://arma.sourceforge.net/speed.html http://arma.sourceforge.net/speed.html [2] https://github.com/catchorg/Catch2/blob/master/docs/tutorial.md#top https://github.com/catchorg/Catch2/blob/master/docs/tutorial...

adamnemecek 6y ago
Why are they impossible in Rust? Are you aware of Rust's macros right?
- ncmncm 6y ago
  Rust macros know nothing about types, but types are what do all the work at compile time.
  - adamnemecek 6y ago
    Do they have to know about types?
    - ncmncm 6y ago
      Only to build designs that today are possible only in C++. Type-aware macros might not be the best way to implement the features needed to match C++.
0xFluegel 6y ago
Can you elaborate on why Catch would be impossible or unergonomic? It's a test framework, right? Why would one even use it instead of the normal rust test framework? Also, how is it ergonomic? I'd agree if you say that it's (one of?) the best for C++, and it's also my go-to option, but ergonomic?

saurik 6y ago

I am under the impression that Rust is lacking even the most basic level of dependent typing: being able to template over a value; pretty much every typesafe buffer library I have ever written uses this to make Random<32>() return not just "a buffer" but "a buffer of size 32", which makes doing parsing of various packet formats and combining sources of information a lot more reasonable. (I am also under the impression that the Rust people intend to fix this lacking, but until then I know I am going to feel a bit crippled.)

steveklabnik 6y ago
The basics are in nightly, but yes, not yet. We’ll get there.