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What does that really mean? Is it stable for those who hold it in China where the amount you can legally transfer overseas is limited and that limit has been bo

by Canada 6y ago

What does that really mean? Is it stable for those who hold it in China where the amount you can legally transfer overseas is limited and that limit has been both going down and much more effectively enforced in recent years?

lambdasquirrel 6y ago
That may sound like a good point, but for the average person in China, does it matter? The average person cares about being able to buy bread and eggs and having a stable currency with which to do that. It's the moneyed classes that care about being able to offshore their wealth.
- hailwren 6y ago
  Right, you just rephrased the question to 'for whom does it matter' but otherwise the original question remains unchanged
- Siira 6y ago
  It’s not “moneyed classes”. Normal upper middleclass people will get screwed, while the corrupt rich will get around the law just fine.
jialutu 6y ago
With a more stable currency, this means more investor confidence, and more confidence for other countries to trade using that currency. There are a lot to be said on this topic, but overall, countries use another's currency to facilitate trade look at 2 main factors: how big your economy is (to cushion the global trade) and how stable your currency is. This was why the pound was THE major global currency about 100 years ago, until it lost its empire, which massively reduced the size of its economy, and hence the mantle was passed onto the US dollar. In recent years, the US dollar seem to be starting to lose its shine given the country is losing its stability and some US politician's allure to the MMT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Monetary_Theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Monetary_Theory As for the amount limit that's transferrable, this is only there to individuals to prevent capital flight (limited to $50,000 per annum), it's not limited to companies. I remember the last time I tried to buy a flight ticket with Qatar Airways, one of the currencies they accepted was the yuan (kinda upset they didn't accept the sterling). This probably will challenge the US Dollar's role as the dominant currency, which is actually terrible for the US in its long term debt structuring.
- Canada 6y ago
  $50k? Those were the days. It's not even $15k now, and it's much more strict in how it's added up.
  - jialutu 6y ago
    $15k? How does the students pay their tuitions nowadays then?
    - Canada 6y ago
      You can transfer out more than that from your account, if you can show approved reasons. The $15k limit is on ATM cards+forex buys at the bank. There are also tons of grey ways to get cash out too, especially if you have a lot of money. It's all just really shitty to have to deal with when it's your own money. So yeah, not looking to "invest" in China until they allow the money to come out no questions asked.
      - jialutu 6y ago
        Well, there is no country that would ever allow money to move in or out "no questions asked". Why do you think there are a lot of terms like AML, or KYC floating about in the finance sector? Also, international payments are a pain in the first place. I'm based in London currently contracting for a Singaporean firm, and they've still yet to be able to make the payment due to IBAN, SWIFT code issues. And you'd think that London and Singapore both being global financial centers, it would be easy right? But yeah, I take your point its really bad having too much restrictions on moving money out of China, although I do think they are trying to change those policies.
  - powerapple 6y ago
    it is still 50k.
- toyg 6y ago
  > the pound was THE major global currency about 100 years ago And before that, up until 200 years ago, it was the Spanish Dollar ("piece of eight"), which dominated South-American and Central-American trade and was informally accepted in Northern colonies too.
hkmaxpro 6y ago
Indeed the currency exchange limit has been going down. Banks use various excuses to forbid currency exchange, even before you hit the personal legal limit of US $50k. A monetary policy maker at the central bank and a supporter capital controls was ironically denied to exchange USD $20k a year ago when trying to visit an overseas relative. The reason for denial was cited as being over 65 years old and not providing sufficient documents. He didn’t exceed the US $50k limit. [1] Earlier last year, China made it illegal to transfer for a profit of RMB 100k or with amount exceeding RMB 5M. This was considered as a measure to curb currency exchange among overseas friends and relatives. [2] Since two years ago, Chinese banks were required to report transfer of at least RMB 50k or US $10k. Seven banks were fined for not keeping track of such transfers. [3] Also two years ago, bank card withdrawal limits outside of China was reduced to RMB 100k. [4] With all these additional restrictions, the amount that one can exchange for is way less than US $50k per year (or about RMB 350k at current exchange rate). Possibly related: The People’s Bank of China just announced that depositing or withdrawing RMB 100k or more will require registration. [5] [1] https://money.163.com/19/0529/12/EGBJMPI4002580S6.html https://money.163.com/19/0529/12/EGBJMPI4002580S6.html (in simplified Chinese) [2] https://www.auliving.com.au/zh-tw/201902/116872.html https://www.auliving.com.au/zh-tw/201902/116872.html (in traditional Chinese) [3] http://finance.sina.com/bg/economy/economy_forex/sinacn/2018-10-24/doc-ivmeckxh1012573.shtml http://finance.sina.com/bg/economy/economy_forex/sinacn/2018... (in simplified Chinese) [4] https://www.hk01.com/%E8%B2%A1%E7%B6%93%E5%BF%AB%E8%A8%8A/145882/%E4%B8%AD%E5%9C%8B%E5%9A%B4%E9%99%90%E9%8A%80%E8%A1%8C%E5%8D%A1%E5%A2%83%E5%A4%96%E6%8F%90%E6%AC%BE-%E5%80%8B%E4%BA%BA%E5%90%8D%E4%B8%8B%E6%89%80%E6%9C%89%E9%8A%80%E8%A1%8C%E5%8D%A1%E5%85%A8%E5%B9%B4%E5%85%B1%E9%99%9010%E8%90%AC%E4%BA%BA%E5%B9%A3 https://www.hk01.com/%E8%B2%A1%E7%B6%93%E5%BF%AB%E8%A8%8A/14... (in traditional Chinese) [5] https://www.msn.com/zh-tw/news/world/%E4%B8%AD%E5%9C%8B%E6%96%B0%E8%A6%8F%E3%80%8C%E7%AE%A1%E7%90%86%E7%8F%BE%E9%87%91%E3%80%8D%EF%BC%81%E7%A7%81%E4%BA%BA%E5%AD%98%E5%8F%9610%E8%90%AC%E8%A6%81%E7%99%BB%E8%A8%98-%E9%99%B8%E7%B6%B2%E5%8F%8B%E6%80%92%E4%BA%86/ar-BB15pBdy https://www.msn.com/zh-tw/news/world/%E4%B8%AD%E5%9C%8B%E6%9... (in traditional Chinese)

by Canada 6y ago

lambdasquirrel 6y ago

That may sound like a good point, but for the average person in China, does it matter? The average person cares about being able to buy bread and eggs and having a stable currency with which to do that. It's the moneyed classes that care about being able to offshore their wealth.

hailwren 6y ago
Right, you just rephrased the question to 'for whom does it matter' but otherwise the original question remains unchanged
Siira 6y ago
It’s not “moneyed classes”. Normal upper middleclass people will get screwed, while the corrupt rich will get around the law just fine.

jialutu 6y ago

With a more stable currency, this means more investor confidence, and more confidence for other countries to trade using that currency. There are a lot to be said on this topic, but overall, countries use another's currency to facilitate trade look at 2 main factors: how big your economy is (to cushion the global trade) and how stable your currency is. This was why the pound was THE major global currency about 100 years ago, until it lost its empire, which massively reduced the size of its economy, and hence the mantle was passed onto the US dollar. In recent years, the US dollar seem to be starting to lose its shine given the country is losing its stability and some US politician's allure to the MMT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Monetary_Theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Monetary_Theory As for the amount limit that's transferrable, this is only there to individuals to prevent capital flight (limited to $50,000 per annum), it's not limited to companies. I remember the last time I tried to buy a flight ticket with Qatar Airways, one of the currencies they accepted was the yuan (kinda upset they didn't accept the sterling). This probably will challenge the US Dollar's role as the dominant currency, which is actually terrible for the US in its long term debt structuring.

Canada 6y ago
$50k? Those were the days. It's not even $15k now, and it's much more strict in how it's added up.
- jialutu 6y ago
  $15k? How does the students pay their tuitions nowadays then?
  - Canada 6y ago
    You can transfer out more than that from your account, if you can show approved reasons. The $15k limit is on ATM cards+forex buys at the bank. There are also tons of grey ways to get cash out too, especially if you have a lot of money. It's all just really shitty to have to deal with when it's your own money. So yeah, not looking to "invest" in China until they allow the money to come out no questions asked.
    - jialutu 6y ago
      Well, there is no country that would ever allow money to move in or out "no questions asked". Why do you think there are a lot of terms like AML, or KYC floating about in the finance sector? Also, international payments are a pain in the first place. I'm based in London currently contracting for a Singaporean firm, and they've still yet to be able to make the payment due to IBAN, SWIFT code issues. And you'd think that London and Singapore both being global financial centers, it would be easy right? But yeah, I take your point its really bad having too much restrictions on moving money out of China, although I do think they are trying to change those policies.
- powerapple 6y ago
  it is still 50k.
toyg 6y ago
> the pound was THE major global currency about 100 years ago And before that, up until 200 years ago, it was the Spanish Dollar ("piece of eight"), which dominated South-American and Central-American trade and was informally accepted in Northern colonies too.

hkmaxpro 6y ago

Indeed the currency exchange limit has been going down. Banks use various excuses to forbid currency exchange, even before you hit the personal legal limit of US $50k. A monetary policy maker at the central bank and a supporter capital controls was ironically denied to exchange USD $20k a year ago when trying to visit an overseas relative. The reason for denial was cited as being over 65 years old and not providing sufficient documents. He didn’t exceed the US $50k limit. [1] Earlier last year, China made it illegal to transfer for a profit of RMB 100k or with amount exceeding RMB 5M. This was considered as a measure to curb currency exchange among overseas friends and relatives. [2] Since two years ago, Chinese banks were required to report transfer of at least RMB 50k or US $10k. Seven banks were fined for not keeping track of such transfers. [3] Also two years ago, bank card withdrawal limits outside of China was reduced to RMB 100k. [4] With all these additional restrictions, the amount that one can exchange for is way less than US $50k per year (or about RMB 350k at current exchange rate). Possibly related: The People’s Bank of China just announced that depositing or withdrawing RMB 100k or more will require registration. [5] [1] https://money.163.com/19/0529/12/EGBJMPI4002580S6.html https://money.163.com/19/0529/12/EGBJMPI4002580S6.html (in simplified Chinese) [2] https://www.auliving.com.au/zh-tw/201902/116872.html https://www.auliving.com.au/zh-tw/201902/116872.html (in traditional Chinese) [3] http://finance.sina.com/bg/economy/economy_forex/sinacn/2018-10-24/doc-ivmeckxh1012573.shtml http://finance.sina.com/bg/economy/economy_forex/sinacn/2018... (in simplified Chinese) [4] https://www.hk01.com/%E8%B2%A1%E7%B6%93%E5%BF%AB%E8%A8%8A/145882/%E4%B8%AD%E5%9C%8B%E5%9A%B4%E9%99%90%E9%8A%80%E8%A1%8C%E5%8D%A1%E5%A2%83%E5%A4%96%E6%8F%90%E6%AC%BE-%E5%80%8B%E4%BA%BA%E5%90%8D%E4%B8%8B%E6%89%80%E6%9C%89%E9%8A%80%E8%A1%8C%E5%8D%A1%E5%85%A8%E5%B9%B4%E5%85%B1%E9%99%9010%E8%90%AC%E4%BA%BA%E5%B9%A3 https://www.hk01.com/%E8%B2%A1%E7%B6%93%E5%BF%AB%E8%A8%8A/14... (in traditional Chinese) [5] https://www.msn.com/zh-tw/news/world/%E4%B8%AD%E5%9C%8B%E6%96%B0%E8%A6%8F%E3%80%8C%E7%AE%A1%E7%90%86%E7%8F%BE%E9%87%91%E3%80%8D%EF%BC%81%E7%A7%81%E4%BA%BA%E5%AD%98%E5%8F%9610%E8%90%AC%E8%A6%81%E7%99%BB%E8%A8%98-%E9%99%B8%E7%B6%B2%E5%8F%8B%E6%80%92%E4%BA%86/ar-BB15pBdy https://www.msn.com/zh-tw/news/world/%E4%B8%AD%E5%9C%8B%E6%9... (in traditional Chinese)