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Since "五毛” is used everywhere for netizens to verbally attack anyone who speaks positive towards CCP and Chinese government, I'd say this seems an inappropriate

Since "五毛” is used everywhere for netizens to verbally attack anyone who speaks positive towards CCP and Chinese government, I'd say this seems an inappropriate use of language. Instead, we probably should label this group as the “government sponsored online moderator” "网评员”. This is more revealing of what actually is happening, I.e. Chinese government hires people to influence and monitor online communities. On the other hand, there are many people who does think CCP and Chinese government is good overall, and support them. Which I do not think it's fair to label them as "五毛”. In case you find this unbelievable, I'll risk being further misinterpreted, by citing the die hard trump supporters being labeled "white supremacists", which I believe is harming the unity of this country.

s_y_n_t_a_x 6y ago
Why do you think the Chinese government needs sponsored online moderators? I don't see a need for moderators if many people believe they are good and support them. It certainly seems like they use them to censor people who object to them and keep themselves in power. To suggest censoring of the phrase that calls them out is comical.
- justicezyx 6y ago
  I thought it's well known that the government hired moderators are for propaganda purpose, right?
  - s_y_n_t_a_x 6y ago
    Exactly, my question essentially is, why do you think the CCP needs propaganda? Because if many people thought they were good and supported them they could win on merit alone, not propaganda.
    - justicezyx 6y ago
      I don't think you need to convince me that Chinese government have inherent flaws. And you might be wrongly thinking I am one of those supporting Chinese government and CCP here. You can see my other reply above to see more explanation of my position.
      - s_y_n_t_a_x 6y ago
        After viewing your other reply, I do not believe you are supporting the CCP, but I also disagree with your stance. I believe we should stand up against dictatorships and challenge them even when we have ties to them. Being able to say anything and challenge anything is the foundation of freedom, ANY form of censorship threatens that. People in the U.S. appreciate being able to call out their government leaders I'm sure. Imagine if you were hauled off at night because of what you posted online. We should all be standing with Hongkongers on this one. tldr: the answer to government censorship is not more censorship of phrases ("五毛”) that call them out
    - baddox 6y ago
      What government doesn’t use propaganda?
      - s_y_n_t_a_x 6y ago
        Well, the article is about the discovered government propaganda by mainly the CCP. If you have other reports about services finding bots that shilled government propaganda from other state actors you're welcome to share them. I certainly don't like the mainstream media in the US and I do believe they peddle domestic propaganda, that doesn't mean we divulge in whataboutism and distract from this specific article we are all discussing though, definitely not without specific evidence or events.
  - ghj 6y ago
    Random question: what's the word for propaganda in chinese? I am also chinese but can only speak with poor vocab. Google translating it yields 宣传, which is a word that I do know but it means something more like "publicity" which loses all the negative connotation of the word propaganda. I just want to make sure it's not a common mistranslation and that people aren't talking past each other. One side is saying the government is actively lying in order to manipulate people. And the other side might be interpreting as the government working on their public image... which is uh a lot more reasonable when put that way. Funny how language shape the way we think.
    - qwename 6y ago
      I tried translating with Baidu and it comes up with "宣传" and "鼓吹". The latter seems more appropriate for propaganda that puts something in a positive light, but doesn't apply to other types of propaganda. So I think a good translation would have to depend on the context.
    - yorwba 6y ago
      It also works the other way around: Chinese organizations with 宣传 in their name will frequently translate it as "propaganda", apparently unaware of the negative connotation it has taken on in English due to the association with "enemy propaganda". When the Chinese government accuses someone of "actively lying in order to manipulate people", they tend to call it 谣言, i.e. "rumors".
- qwename 6y ago
  Maybe because there might exist propaganda against the Chinese government? If Twitter has evidence for Chinese propaganda on a US-based site that's inaccessible to the Chinese population, wouldn't it be reasonable to suspect that US propaganda that targets the Chinese government exists too? The above is just my opinion, but I think we're detracting from the main issue in the parent comment, that the term "WuMao" can be considered a derogatory term. Tell me if I'm wrong, but many terms started off neutral, but turned derogatory over time. The example that comes to mind is the N-word that rhymes with aggro, I'm not even sure if it's okay to use that so I'm self-censoring.
  - s_y_n_t_a_x 6y ago
    We're all replying to the article about the Chinese propaganda Twitter has evidence of, do you have evidence of US propaganda to submit into the discussion? Regardless, I don't see how more wrong it is to call someone a "WuMao" than it is to call them a "trump supporter", they should both be allowed.
    - qwename 6y ago
      No I don't have evidence, and I was going to include that I don't have evidence in my comment, but didn't. I was merely stating a possibility in answer to your question. Maybe you should reply to my second paragraph instead. Edit: I don't know about the intricacies of political correctness, but somehow "trump supporter" feels ok, maybe because it has two words and "supporter" balances "trump". Personally I think "50 cent army" isn't as bad as "WuMao" even though they mean the same thing, go figure.
      - s_y_n_t_a_x 6y ago
        The essence of my analogy was both are terms that denote the ideology of a person, something they CHOOSE, not are born into like race. If you believed your government was good, why would you care about a label that targeted you as a supporter for them?
        6y ago
- ponker 6y ago
  That’s like asking why does Taylor Swift pay people to moderate her social media if many people like her.
  - s_y_n_t_a_x 6y ago
    I didn't realize Taylor Swift's social media uses bots to manipulate other people's feeds. I figured it was a normal situation where they blocked people and tweeted for her, do you have evidence otherwise?
ardit33 6y ago
^ it seems that HN needs to do some garbage collection, and remove the state linked accounts here as well
- tossAfterUsing 6y ago
  you're leveling a claim i might agree with, but i don't think you're doing so in an appropriate way (as in, if everybody behaved this way when similar feelings arose, we'd have a real shit community) if you have a problem with the statement, can you address where it's inaccurate? or can you be more explicit with your own assertion in order that the rest of us can address where your inaccuracies are.
  - justicezyx 6y ago
    GP here, I am moderately surprised that the parent post implied I am linked with Chinese government. Usually people would be more subtle. I was born and raised in mainland China, left to US for PhD at 22. I gradually understand why westners show various degree of hatred towards the Chinese government, CCP, and not so rarely the Chinese people. And also see the equally ridiculous negative biased of Chinese people towards westners. From a self-interest perspective, I try to state the less emotional charged description on news relevant to China. Because I am seeing the risk of becoming one of the scapegoat of the Sino-US conflict. For example, while I was called linking to Chinese government, I am equally possible being called "banana man" (yellow skin with white heart, you get the idea) by passionate Chinese netizens. I am actively risking my reputation on this forum by behaving like this. As for a long time I am well aware of the genuine political and cultural biases. But I believe this is best for my situation. I cannot just watching the hatred grow between the common people without an action. That is also hurting the my own and my family's future.
    - dang 6y ago
      This caught-in-the-middle position is common enough on HN that I wrote about it when a similar issue came up last year: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21200971 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21200971. That's a long post; the part that your comment reminded me of is this: What you're most likely getting is (for example, let's say) a Chinese-Canadian Amazon or Microsoft employee, who's been reading HN for years and is suddenly hurt and dismayed by all the aggressive anti-Chinese comments that have been showing up on the site—or (let's say) a Chinese grad student who stayed in the US, got a good job and played by the rules, and back home in China is the one holding the other side of the argument, defending the US and his American friends to his family who have been hearing nasty things about them over there. It is a difficult position to be in, because you get attacked from both sides, and not just about something small, but in deep and painful places.
ciarannolan 6y ago
Can someone add their commentary as to why this person is getting downvoted for making perfectly reasonable comments in this thread? Here's another example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23495221 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23495221 Read my own comments to understand that I'm as anti-CCP as anyone on HN and extremely cynical about China, but let's not just bury comments for no reason.

s_y_n_t_a_x 6y ago

Why do you think the Chinese government needs sponsored online moderators? I don't see a need for moderators if many people believe they are good and support them. It certainly seems like they use them to censor people who object to them and keep themselves in power. To suggest censoring of the phrase that calls them out is comical.

justicezyx 6y ago
I thought it's well known that the government hired moderators are for propaganda purpose, right?
- s_y_n_t_a_x 6y ago
  Exactly, my question essentially is, why do you think the CCP needs propaganda? Because if many people thought they were good and supported them they could win on merit alone, not propaganda.
  - justicezyx 6y ago
    I don't think you need to convince me that Chinese government have inherent flaws. And you might be wrongly thinking I am one of those supporting Chinese government and CCP here. You can see my other reply above to see more explanation of my position.
    - s_y_n_t_a_x 6y ago
      After viewing your other reply, I do not believe you are supporting the CCP, but I also disagree with your stance. I believe we should stand up against dictatorships and challenge them even when we have ties to them. Being able to say anything and challenge anything is the foundation of freedom, ANY form of censorship threatens that. People in the U.S. appreciate being able to call out their government leaders I'm sure. Imagine if you were hauled off at night because of what you posted online. We should all be standing with Hongkongers on this one. tldr: the answer to government censorship is not more censorship of phrases ("五毛”) that call them out
  - baddox 6y ago
    What government doesn’t use propaganda?
    - s_y_n_t_a_x 6y ago
      Well, the article is about the discovered government propaganda by mainly the CCP. If you have other reports about services finding bots that shilled government propaganda from other state actors you're welcome to share them. I certainly don't like the mainstream media in the US and I do believe they peddle domestic propaganda, that doesn't mean we divulge in whataboutism and distract from this specific article we are all discussing though, definitely not without specific evidence or events.
- ghj 6y ago
  Random question: what's the word for propaganda in chinese? I am also chinese but can only speak with poor vocab. Google translating it yields 宣传, which is a word that I do know but it means something more like "publicity" which loses all the negative connotation of the word propaganda. I just want to make sure it's not a common mistranslation and that people aren't talking past each other. One side is saying the government is actively lying in order to manipulate people. And the other side might be interpreting as the government working on their public image... which is uh a lot more reasonable when put that way. Funny how language shape the way we think.
  - qwename 6y ago
    I tried translating with Baidu and it comes up with "宣传" and "鼓吹". The latter seems more appropriate for propaganda that puts something in a positive light, but doesn't apply to other types of propaganda. So I think a good translation would have to depend on the context.
  - yorwba 6y ago
    It also works the other way around: Chinese organizations with 宣传 in their name will frequently translate it as "propaganda", apparently unaware of the negative connotation it has taken on in English due to the association with "enemy propaganda". When the Chinese government accuses someone of "actively lying in order to manipulate people", they tend to call it 谣言, i.e. "rumors".
qwename 6y ago
Maybe because there might exist propaganda against the Chinese government? If Twitter has evidence for Chinese propaganda on a US-based site that's inaccessible to the Chinese population, wouldn't it be reasonable to suspect that US propaganda that targets the Chinese government exists too? The above is just my opinion, but I think we're detracting from the main issue in the parent comment, that the term "WuMao" can be considered a derogatory term. Tell me if I'm wrong, but many terms started off neutral, but turned derogatory over time. The example that comes to mind is the N-word that rhymes with aggro, I'm not even sure if it's okay to use that so I'm self-censoring.
- s_y_n_t_a_x 6y ago
  We're all replying to the article about the Chinese propaganda Twitter has evidence of, do you have evidence of US propaganda to submit into the discussion? Regardless, I don't see how more wrong it is to call someone a "WuMao" than it is to call them a "trump supporter", they should both be allowed.
  - qwename 6y ago
    No I don't have evidence, and I was going to include that I don't have evidence in my comment, but didn't. I was merely stating a possibility in answer to your question. Maybe you should reply to my second paragraph instead. Edit: I don't know about the intricacies of political correctness, but somehow "trump supporter" feels ok, maybe because it has two words and "supporter" balances "trump". Personally I think "50 cent army" isn't as bad as "WuMao" even though they mean the same thing, go figure.
    - s_y_n_t_a_x 6y ago
      The essence of my analogy was both are terms that denote the ideology of a person, something they CHOOSE, not are born into like race. If you believed your government was good, why would you care about a label that targeted you as a supporter for them?
      - 6y ago
ponker 6y ago
That’s like asking why does Taylor Swift pay people to moderate her social media if many people like her.
- s_y_n_t_a_x 6y ago
  I didn't realize Taylor Swift's social media uses bots to manipulate other people's feeds. I figured it was a normal situation where they blocked people and tweeted for her, do you have evidence otherwise?

ardit33 6y ago

^ it seems that HN needs to do some garbage collection, and remove the state linked accounts here as well

tossAfterUsing 6y ago
you're leveling a claim i might agree with, but i don't think you're doing so in an appropriate way (as in, if everybody behaved this way when similar feelings arose, we'd have a real shit community) if you have a problem with the statement, can you address where it's inaccurate? or can you be more explicit with your own assertion in order that the rest of us can address where your inaccuracies are.
- justicezyx 6y ago
  GP here, I am moderately surprised that the parent post implied I am linked with Chinese government. Usually people would be more subtle. I was born and raised in mainland China, left to US for PhD at 22. I gradually understand why westners show various degree of hatred towards the Chinese government, CCP, and not so rarely the Chinese people. And also see the equally ridiculous negative biased of Chinese people towards westners. From a self-interest perspective, I try to state the less emotional charged description on news relevant to China. Because I am seeing the risk of becoming one of the scapegoat of the Sino-US conflict. For example, while I was called linking to Chinese government, I am equally possible being called "banana man" (yellow skin with white heart, you get the idea) by passionate Chinese netizens. I am actively risking my reputation on this forum by behaving like this. As for a long time I am well aware of the genuine political and cultural biases. But I believe this is best for my situation. I cannot just watching the hatred grow between the common people without an action. That is also hurting the my own and my family's future.
  - dang 6y ago
    This caught-in-the-middle position is common enough on HN that I wrote about it when a similar issue came up last year: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21200971 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21200971. That's a long post; the part that your comment reminded me of is this: What you're most likely getting is (for example, let's say) a Chinese-Canadian Amazon or Microsoft employee, who's been reading HN for years and is suddenly hurt and dismayed by all the aggressive anti-Chinese comments that have been showing up on the site—or (let's say) a Chinese grad student who stayed in the US, got a good job and played by the rules, and back home in China is the one holding the other side of the argument, defending the US and his American friends to his family who have been hearing nasty things about them over there. It is a difficult position to be in, because you get attacked from both sides, and not just about something small, but in deep and painful places.

ciarannolan 6y ago

Can someone add their commentary as to why this person is getting downvoted for making perfectly reasonable comments in this thread? Here's another example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23495221 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23495221 Read my own comments to understand that I'm as anti-CCP as anyone on HN and extremely cynical about China, but let's not just bury comments for no reason.