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Has YC ever funded a company with a Black founder?

152 points by prime0196 16y ago

I ask this question of out sheer curiosity. Some people may ask "Why does it matter?" Well, it's a well known fact that there are a disproportionate amount of blacks in technology and it gets even worse when it comes to programming. I can imagine the numbers get even more grim when it comes to black programmers in startups. I live in Metro Atlanta and have attended programming meetups, Big Nerd Ranch, attended meetings for companies wanting to join the ATDC (an incubator of sorts) and I'm often the ONLY black guy in the room. Even with PYCON in town, there still aren't a whole lot of people that look like ME. I applied to YC in 2007, WAAAAY before I was ready and was just wondering if anyone that looks like ME has EVER made it.

blazer 16y ago
I know YC looks at the founder(s) & little about their idea. I am sure they never consider their color anyway.
shareme 16y ago
I am curious as well.
nostromo 16y ago
Michael Seibel CEO of Justin.tv comes to mind.
- aaronsw 16y ago
  Pretty sure Seibel joined after it got funding.
nocko 16y ago
Good Question. It would be interesting to hear about the experiences minority programmers have had in the startup scene (in our out of YC).
- ig1 16y ago
  As a British Asian (that means Indian-subcontinent Asian for you Americans :) - I'd say race is a total non-issue in the startup community in the UK. (Off the top of my head of the YC companies I believe Heyzap, Auctomatic, SnapTalent, and Rapportive all had British-Asian co-founders)
  - krakensden 16y ago
    American society has a very different relationship with Indian-subcontinent-Asians and African-Americans.
    - ig1 16y ago
      oh definitely, but I think nocko was broadening the question to ask about other ethnic groups as well.
      - krakensden 16y ago
        That's a fair point, but people of Asian (subcontinent included) descent are pretty damn ubiquitous in the industry, and I don't think anybody worries that they're being discriminated against. I feel like something more relevant to the OP would be including Latinos, or talking about how rich the parents of programmers are.
        ig1 16y ago
        I don't think anyone's saying blacks are being discriminated against either, rather asking the question what are the factors driving the change. British Asians on a whole tend to come from lesser educated poorer backgrounds than average, do less well in school, etc. That they're well represented in the developer and startup community despite that makes an interesting data point.
- atirip 16y ago
  Once upon a time I was working with a minority programmer. I wrote the majority of all code and he wrote minority of all code. I do remember that his variable names where odd and didn't bond well with mine, hence major problems.
citricsquid 16y ago
As a black person why do you think this is?
- prime0196 16y ago
  Not many black programming role models. Sad to say but many black youth still see sports and entertainment and the only way to achieve a high level of success in America. My primary goal in life is to try to change that perception by becoming a successful programmer.
  - eengstrom 16y ago
    I would like to speak with you. ^ is something we can solve together.
  - alecco 16y ago
    I remember meeting black hackers in the early 90s while it was still mostly underground.
  - EMRo 16y ago
    Agreed, this is something that might be good to address through something like http://www.nfte.com http://www.nfte.com which has a large group of entrepreneurial young minorities who are all sharp but looking for help/mentorship. They focus mostly on the basic tenets of entrepreneurship but I would love to see more minority programmers coming out of underprivileged schools and situations.
  - true_religion 16y ago
    I'm not sure about this... do you really believe that programmers need role models for success? We have people that we idolize but its not because of common-place programming ability or merely their job but because of what they've achieved----Bill Gates with Microsoft, Linus Torvalds with Linux, etc. Programmers seem to usually be self-described 'geeks' and thus like programming for its own sake.
    - EMRo 16y ago
wcchandler 16y ago
Black people only make up 13% of the population. [1] Most people forget this fact when judging race in a population. 1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_Stat...
- _delirium 16y ago
  I don't think that particular statistic by itself explains much of it; YC has funded over 200 founders, so if indeed the relevant population were 13% Black, that would imply an expectation of around 25 Black founders. I don't think anyone's asking why there aren't 50% Black founders, by why there aren't closer to 13%. (There may well be good explanations, but they have to be something other than the 13% total population number.)
  - ry0ohki 16y ago
    It doesn't really matter what the overall percentage in the population as a whole is, it's more of a question of their representative percentage in creating a technology startup, or as others have mentioned, it matters how many apply to YC.
  - petercooper 16y ago
    Yeah, demographics and statistics are tough and mostly useless in this situation. For example, the DOE found that roughly 40% of people have merely a basic or "below basic" level of literacy, yet I doubt that's true of the YC alumni..
- prime0196 16y ago
  Asians and those from the Middle East have an even smaller percentage but appear to be well represented in startups.
  - drzaiusapelord 16y ago
    I'm sure there's a lack of women or blind people or people who can't speak or write English. The thing overly-PC types don't want to address is that certain fields attract certain types. Geeky males in tech, women and gay men in fashion, etc. The lack of population matching demographics isn't proof of racism. That said, I'd argue that unless you grew up with computers and were interested in programming them early in life you probably aren't the startup type. Your income level affects this, obviously if you can't get your hands on a computer then you're not going to be able to do much. As a geek I never had any "role models" or other things that set me on my path. Nor did my parents encourage tech. Nor did my friends. I was, and in many ways, still am something of a lone geek amongst non-geeks. I believe "role models" to be a meaningless cop-out.
vaksel 16y ago
black male founder probably...black female founder probably not
- tersiag 16y ago
  and why not?
  - vaksel 16y ago
    because there are very few women in tech, and that number goes down even further if you just consider those that are black.
    - tersiag 16y ago
      As a black woman .... I have to agree
      - GeoffreyHull 16y ago
        Hey tersiag I'm putting together a blog post on your experience thus far. Would love to get your insight. Hit me http://thegeoffreyhull.com http://thegeoffreyhull.com
        tersiag 16y ago
        Sure I would love to. keep in mind that I'm a black woman from African and not America, but I'm sure my insights are universal...
- chrisduesing 16y ago
  My cofounder is a black female. She is an economist and we worked together in the financial industry, so while not a programmer, she is certainly technical.
naithemilkman 16y ago
I really don't think YC cares about ethnicity. I also don't quite get the point of this post.
- JonnieCache 16y ago
  I don't think anybody is accusing YC of racism or any other discrimination. The causal relationships are higher order ones than that, but no less important for it.
  - anamax 16y ago
    > I don't think anybody is accusing YC of racism or any other discrimination. Not yet, but what usually happens after the answer to "how many X are black?" comes back "not proportional to Y"?
- ascendant 16y ago
  It sounds like a reasonable question to me. He's just wondering.
- raganwald 16y ago
  I don't see the question or the discussion so far as meeting the standard for "An interesting new phenomena." It looks like something that would be better served over on Quora than on HN. It's a reasonable question, but just as many subjects--explicitly including politics--are of interest to HN's readerships but still not HN-worthy, it doesn't appear to meet the standards in the FAQ for the front page. Discussions of minority participation in technology and entrepreneurship goes on ad nauseaum elsewhere. If it is to come up here out of the blue, we ought to have some interesting angle to YCombinator funding. For example, if we know that YCombinator funds double the proportion of the rest of the industry, that would be interesting and new. If we have no evidence of anything interesting or new, the question hardly seems like Hacker News. If it's a simple question, an email to Paul Graham would probably obtain a simple answer.
  - jedsmith 16y ago
    "An interesting new phenomenon" is used an exception to the rule that politics (and so forth) shouldn't be posted. In the paragraph right before that quote, we find: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. [...] anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity. I was at PyCon as well, and observed the exact same anecdote that the OP describes. At my company's booth, the only minorities I can think of who talked to us were more than likely visiting from Europe, Asia, or South America. Therefore, I'm curious, and I'm interested to see the response; not from accusing Y Combinator of racism, as some seem to suggest, but merely to get some data on minority penetration into our field. There is no "standard" for the front page. We're all smart people, and we can be trusted to make judgments.
JoeAltmaier 16y ago
How many apply? The population norm is irrelevant. That said, how to correct this? E.g. Stanford University has no quota and doesn't yield on admission standards, but does a good job actively recruiting qualified minority students. Does YC recruit at all?
revorad 16y ago
It would help to know how many black founders apply in the first place.
- sitmack 16y ago
  He didn't ask for conversion rates. He asked a total and I didn't get the impression that his question was accusing anyone of anything.
- BoppreH 16y ago
  I think the question is not about racism during the funding process, but how much of a minority black people are in this situations.
  - revorad 16y ago
    Yes, and that's what the answer to my question will illustrate.
Udo 16y ago
> I'm often the ONLY black guy in the room It's probably my European naiveté talking here, but I seriously wonder if and why that matters to you. Most of us belong to some kind of "minority" in some fashion, sometimes it's visible from the outside, sometimes not. Are things in the USA really so bad that it matters what color your skin is? Isn't tech a business of ideas anyway?
- eengstrom 16y ago
  I am almost 40. I have been in the IT world actively since 1984 here in Berkeley/San Francisco/Silicon Valley. I have worked in big corporate, nationally and internationally. I have worked with fewer than 10 black men and women in a technical role in my entire career; spanning hundreds of teams and nearly a hundred customers and employers. It matters because opportunity and outcomes aren't equal. The problem isn't purely the IT scene, but one of the greatest challenges the United States faces.
  - rick888 16y ago
    I don't think it's anything we need to "fix". Racism is still around to a small degree, but It's not what's keeping black men and women out of IT. It's culture. The culture needs to change for the problem to go away (if it should be considered a problem) and no amount of money and government intervention is going to change it. Why aren't there more male nurses? Why aren't there more female mechanics? I also don't know where you are working, but I've only worked on 10 teams (I'm in software development) and there were at least a few black guys on each of my teams. But, I tend not to look at color. I look at the person.
- _delirium 16y ago
  It definitely matters in Europe, possibly moreso than in the USA, at least in the circles I've been in (I'm white myself, so this is mostly from observation and friends). In Denmark at least, there is a lot of awkwardness around race, and it certainly isn't the case that non-white people generally feel comfortable in groups where they're the only non-white person (even worse if everyone else is not only white, but specifically of Scandinavian ethnic heritage, which emphasizes the not-like-me-ness even more). I'm not sure of the exact reasons, or how much is actual racism, but there is definitely a vague sense of weirdness/discomfort.
rabble 16y ago
It'd be interesting to see. African Americans and Latinos* make up about %28 of the US population, but are very under represented in startups. East Asians, South Asians, Arabs and Jews are over represented in tech based on over all population. What's more, most of the black programmers i've worked with at startups were born in Africa or the Caribbean. I suspect that YC would be wise to try and recruit diversity, having different perspectives, backgrounds and world views among founders at the the dinners and other places, would probably make all the startups stronger. Latinos or Hispanics are an ethnic group, not racial, there are white, black, native american, and asian latinos.
- anamax 16y ago
  > I suspect that YC would be wise to try and recruit diversity Why? Are you assuming that different races might have different strengths (on average)? If so, that assumption implies that, again on average, a purely merit based system will result in less diversity than the general population. To the extent that race correlates with culture and culture has an effect on strengths, the same applies. So, remind me why diversity is important?
  - anamax 16y ago
    Note that said "less diversity" is in each role, because different roles require different strengths. Whether or not a given organization ends up less diverse depends on the roles in said organization. However, I'm still looking for an answer to my question - why should YC care about diversity?
- tiabasnk 16y ago
  "What's more, most of the black programmers i've worked with at startups were born in Africa or the Caribbean." There's a good reason for that.From the African perspective what I can say, is that Africans has very strong will and motivation. The level of excellence that is expected by African parents from there children is abnormally high. In my country, Uganda, it's very common for a parent to punish his/her child for being the Second in class regardless of the good grades earned. At present because of the technology boom in Africa, one's ability to skillfully work with different technologies is revered by others. Consequently, more Africans are tackling various fields in technology, especially computer science, with the same motivation and determination that was dedicated to traditional fields such as tropical medicine and electrical engineering.
gabrielleydon 16y ago
A Co Founder of Addmired Inc. (YC W08) is black. So at least one.
centdev 16y ago
The population percentages of race have absolutely no correlation to the percentages of startup founders accepted by YC or that would potentially be accepted by YC. With YC only funding 200 or so startups, that sample is too low to quantify any conclusions.
frankdenbow 16y ago
I know how you feel. I was one of 2 black students in my graduating CS class at CMU. It has never been a source of pressure/anxiety for me, but I do understand how it may affect other black students to feel like you are on your own. As far as investors go, I doubt that they have any aversion to supporting entrepreneurs of any background. This is one industry that I would presume is more of a meritocracy than society at large. As I said on my tumblr a while back (http://bit.ly/g7jCAF http://bit.ly/g7jCAF) investors can see the green inside all of us :-) There are many discussions going on about women in technology startups. The greater question is not why there aren't more founders, but why there arent more minority/female students in academia. Most of your founders are going to be a subset of those in academia anyway, so why not look at the problem closer to the source?
- eengstrom 16y ago
  I think the answer isn't just the employment and supporting of people already excelling in the system, it is in changing the distribution of opportunity prior to formal education. We intend to do this by operating a program within our company, starting with community computer and science lab, promoting to a group work day with interactive collaboration, then eventually fitting a child's interest in a role with a second-seat internship at each employee's desk. This is all early stage of process, but 20 years of thinking and experimentation. If I'm able to build my current venture out, my next will be promoting these early programs to help expand young people's thinking (and hopefully help them make themselves their own role model) about science and technology.
- haploid 16y ago
  "The greater question is not why there aren't more founders, but why there arent more minority/female students in academia" http://www.prb.org/Articles/2007/CrossoverinFemaleMaleCollegeEnrollmentRates.aspx http://www.prb.org/Articles/2007/CrossoverinFemaleMaleColleg... http://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/2009/section1/indicator11.asp http://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/2009/section1/indicator11.as... To wit: Females have dominated academia for a couple decades now. Also, it should be pointed out that many founders are college dropouts or even high school dropouts, so I'd be interested in some sort of citation of evidence that one can assume most founders will be a subset of academia.
EMRo 16y ago
I'm black as well. Went to Harvard and when I graduated I worked at the Kauffman Foundation. During that summer I pitched the idea to lawyers for deferred payment on corp formation and found a technical cofounder in August. We wound up building a pretty miz alpha because I had no clue what I actually wanted to create to solve the problem I had in mind. Got very minimal traction, worked at a quant hedge fund to bootstrap. Learned to program (LAMP + JS) during the nights and weekends, launched a beta, got basic ("this could be interesting") level traction. Pitched angels, got funded, now working on an html5 based mobile website to capture the function our users find most interesting. In general, I haven't experienced any discrimination or racial issues as yet. To be quite frank, the most helpful people have not been my color. This surprised me quite a bit because in the finance world where I interned all throughout school there's a strong "cultural networking" focus where you are connected with multiple career mentors, some of whom were "diversity" mentors. With regard to my venture, I took the "open" approach and told everyone my idea in hopes of bouncing it around and making it better. In so doing, I met a lot of really interesting people of all colors who have served as advisors/friends/partners to this day. The startup community seems to be very much merit based and quantitative. If you have skills, traction, etc. you'll get looks but you wont get a handout for any reason unless you hustle for it. (You should check out black web 2.0, http://blackweb20.com http://blackweb20.com they have an interesting community of people in tech.)
- Aloisius 16y ago
  Gah why doesn't that site let you post job openings? I got some great advice from a Berkeley professor about increasing diversity in the workplace. I had issues giving preferential treatment to resumes that came in just because I thought diversity was important and he suggested I post job openings in places that are already heavily black/latino/etc. I thought it was a great idea, but they aren't easy to find.
  - AngelaBenton 16y ago
    Hi Aloisius, we have a job board it's called Vocay.com, posting come up on the sidebar on Black Web 2.0 and we also try to post them as posts so that it gets distributed through our social graph. :) -Angela Benton Founder, Black Web 2.0
gregschlom 16y ago
Courtland Allen, co-founder of Taskforce (YC W11) And he is the technical guy of the pair.
- sgentle 16y ago
  Strange. This is an actual and useful answer to the question but for some reason it's placed halfway down the page.
- rweba 16y ago
  Michael Sherrill of Addmired seems to be another one.
qas1981 16y ago
I'm in Atlanta, black, a programmer and and I casually take notice and see that most of the faces that surround me aren't those that look like me. I tend to wonder the same questions at times. It's a question of is the game we play skewed towards a certain outcome. If it is how do we play?
DanielBMarkham 16y ago
was just wondering if anyone that looks like ME has EVER made it Assuming that there might be something "unattractive" about being black -- a big assumption but one I'm willing to play along with for purposes of this thread -- how about fat people? Old people? People who don't live in cities? People who didn't go to an ivory league college? Conservatives? People who have physical defects? On a few occasions, it's been stated that basically you need to look "cute", "serious", or various other quasi-bullshit phrases. It's a logical follow-up question to start asking about exactly which attributes people find attractive. But I'm not sure what difference it makes. If your startup depends on YC, they probably don't want you. It's like the old thing about only asking for a loan when you don't need the money. While you can count up various attributes and report on them, that's a long way from a causal relationship. Maybe no black people applied. Maybe there were only 2 black people that applied, but they were both joke applications. There's simply no useful information you can gather from a count. At least not that I can see. Perhaps you can develop a suspicion that the odds are stacked against you, but if you're looking for reasons to think the odds are stacked against you, hell, just go look at the stats for startups in general. No need to add anything else in there. I guess I just don't understand your point. It doesn't seem very productive, no matter what the answer is.
- prime0196 16y ago
  Just looking for some inspiration. It's that simple. I don't think 'THE MAN' is trying to hold me down. If I had that mentality I would have never made it this far.
  - DanielBMarkham 16y ago
    I must be an idiot, because I still don't understand it. So I'm an old fat ugly-looking guy. According to you, I should be looking for other folks like me who made it? This will somehow be inspirational? And what good, exactly, does finding another person who _looks_ like me going to accomplish? What the hell difference does it make? Have you ever visited or not visited a web site because of the way the person who created it looks? Ever purchased or not purchased an app because of the religion or heritage of the developer? YC, if they have any sense in their heads, should care about traction, scalability, and success potential. None of that is based on attributes like this. If it is, I've never heard of it. (And it makes no sense) Now perhaps you can make a case that things like this play a role with finding investors, but AFAIK YC has made it clear -that not every entrant has to have a beauty pageant investor track. Here's a question I could get behind: Let's say I want to find funding. What sorts of things that I can control -- looks, haircut, attitude, etc -- make the biggest superficial difference to investors? I'd like to hear a lot more about that. Wonder if anybody has any data?
tiabasnk 16y ago
It's possible that very few black people seem to care enough to give it a shot. Being black has never stopped me from trying anything. So long as I know that I can pull it off. At the very least there may be a slight prejudice simple because of the scarcity of motivated black individuals. In the end, if one can show what one's got, I do not see why that person should get a fair chance. That's my 2 cents on the matter.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
jcromartie 16y ago
I'm 27 and I've only met one black programmer. That is rather strange.
Gaussian 16y ago
It's all about access. YC can only fund the best applications it gets. Those often come from, I'm guessing, people whose creative sides have been nurtured while also getting some kind of constructive exposure to programming. Just like anything else, the socio-economically disadvantaged often don't get the access or education they need to wield or understand the power of programming. I do think that is changing, as evinced by the programs and organizations that have sprouted up to address the issue. But it's a slog.
chegra 16y ago
If you watch the slide show: http://ycombinator.com/ http://ycombinator.com/ long enough, a black guy will show(< 3 mins in).
OoTheNigerian 16y ago
http://oonwoye.com/2010/04/05/black-founders/ http://oonwoye.com/2010/04/05/black-founders/
joshbaptiste 16y ago
It really doesn't bother me at all because it makes sense why the low numbers exists in the first place. Basically the black community doesn't lend itself to hacking in general. When I hang with my friends I switch from geeky to a more hip hop style, they are simply not interested in what i am into and talk more about sport/entertainment topics. The few black friends I have that are in tech only do it for work. To have a Hacker/YC mind you usually have to fully immerse yourself into hacking, eg.. hacking at home,IRC etc.. So I believe the disproportion just reflects the type of people who simply interested. Believe me if you have the next million dollar idea in your hands then your set. The only color that really matters in this tech entrepreneurial space is green.
boboblong 16y ago
Confession: When I read something online that I know was written by a black person, I am significantly more critical of grammar and usage. I sometimes read sentences twice simply because I expect errors. I consider myself to be a good person and I don't actively discriminate against people based on things like race, but I simply can't help this reflex. Sad, huh?
clammer 16y ago
I'm white, so take what I say with a grain of salt. In all honesty, I feel bad for black people who must always wonder if they're being judged solely on their merits. That said, I can't think of a better industry for a minority to be in than technology and entrepreneurship. The only color that matters here is green. Skill talks and bullshit walks.
Lukeas14 16y ago
As a black programmer with about 5 years of professional experience, I've always asked myself the same question. Throughout all the job interviews, conferences and meetups I've been to I've met no more than 3 other black programmers. One is my dad while the other is a friend and his dad. I still haven't come up with an answer but I do have two theories: Role Models: There is no black Bill Gates. Not everyone is a trailblazer and for the rest of us role models play a huge "role" when choosing a career path. This is especially true for the black community. It becomes much easier to convince yourself, and your parents, that your passion is a valid career choice if you can point to an existing success story. Access to technology: When I was a kid growing up I was the only one of my friends whose family owned a computer thanks to my dad being a programmer. Kinda hard to develop a passion for programming without one of those. Before tech skills became a requirement for any decent job computers were seen as expensive and unnecessary so everyone else was told "we'll get you one when you get to high school / college." However, as I apply these these theories to today, Obama is president and just about every kid, rich or poor, has daily access to a computer. I'm guessing in 5 years time, when the next generation begins their careers, the number of black programmers will increase drastically all on its own. That said I do know a good number of black network engineers and sys admins so I'm completely lost as to why programming is the only IT profession with such a huge discrepancy. Any theories?
- dasil003 16y ago
  What about peer pressure? I'm not black, but I went to a public high school, fairly diverse, let's say 15%/20%/10%/55% black/asian/latino/white. My experience with black classmates was that in individual classes they were pretty typical in the mix of other students, reasonably friendly and participatory in class, etc. But then out in the hallways it was a whole different story. It just was not cool to be studious in any way. I saw black kids get made fun of by their peers just for carrying books. Kids who I was very friendly with in class would not even look at me in the commons, I'm presuming because associating with a white nerd would be social suicide.
  - Lukeas14 16y ago
    Good point. For high school I switched to a private school with around the same demographics and since it was "college prep" all the black students understood that we were there to make something of ourselves. So I never experienced the anti-intellectual peer pressure in a school setting. My friends from outside of school, however, STILL refer to me as "that corporate nigga". But since I know them from places like my neighborhood or sports teams where clics and social standings didn't exist there were no detrimental effects to being a nerd. Anybody at any high school who is known as a programmer is going to be teased to some extent. What kept you from giving into the peer pressure?
ido 16y ago
Not really on topic, but I'm in Atlanta too at the moment and when I went to the game developers meetup about 5 of the 20 people who showed up were black & other game development events I've been to in Georgia Tech had a few black people in them too (less than their proportion of the population, but still a good 1/4-1/5 the attendants). Don't know what that might say about the games industry, if at all, just putting it out there.
peterwwillis 16y ago
More interesting to me: how many have been rejected? If anyone were curious about possible racism in funding (AND I'M NOT SAYING THERE IS AT ALL) that would be the metric i'd begin with.
nraynaud 16y ago
Here in France, we have many African people from our former colonies studying here, and many staying too, so I guess we are used to it. Speaking about skin color, there are more "brown" people than "black" people, because Magreb is more represented than sub-saharian countries.
tom_b 16y ago
Can't speak to YC's experience, but I attended a historically black college/university (referred to as HBCUs) and knew a number of top-notch African-American CS students/hackers while I was there. At one point, out of 7 or 8 undergrads in a research group I was with, more than half had completed PhDs and I think the rest of us (I was the lone white student in the group) had picked up MS degrees. A number of the higher-quality students from this institution were heavily recruited by big corps with eyes on increasing minority hires and diversity rates. What I mostly know is that successful CS students from this institution had their choice of top-notch careers or academic research opportunities. As a school (and my general region), not much emphasis was placed on entrepreneurship. Maybe both facts come into play with startup culture today.
AngelaBenton 16y ago
I think this is a good question, I'd like to piggyback on it and ask of the people who have applied did they apply as a team or as a single co-founders? Were they technical? etc. I only ask these questions because I think they are important. I applied to YC and just had a conversation w/ someone who applied also however at the time of application we were both single founders. I consider myself technical but I'm sure not as technical as many of you since I've only dealt in front-end web development. YC does have super specific criteria for applying, they are looking for a certain type of founder (or team of co-founders) so it would be helpful to this discussion to know. I think it also depends on the idea/start-up submitted. Part of the review process does seem like they are looking at the entrepreneur but it also seems like they are looking at the entrepreneur (or team) and their ability to execute on the idea. Just my thoughts...
tungwaiyip 16y ago
It doesn't address your question directly. But I find it a good opportunity to show you a visualization I've made for San Francisco Elementary school assignment by ethnicity. Clearly the city is not distributed evenly. http://tungwaiyip.info/2011/2011_SFUSD_ethnicity.html http://tungwaiyip.info/2011/2011_SFUSD_ethnicity.html
Qykno 16y ago
Kalimah Priforce (Qykno | Career Matchmaking 4 Kids) There have been several discussions about this topic, including my own: "Startup America Should Look Like America" http://bit.ly/fuqcBB http://bit.ly/fuqcBB. There are groups that are forming to address the need for diversity in the tech world. The "Black Founders" Kickoff Launch Event is on Thursday, March 24th, 2011 at www.meetup.com/BlackFounders/events/16882191/ The Plancast event details are here: http://plancast.com/p/4cq2 http://plancast.com/p/4cq2 We've recently launched four "Building While Brown" groups on facebook: Bay Area: http://on.fb.me/hyJJhM http://on.fb.me/hyJJhM, NYC http://on.fb.me/fF2lXW http://on.fb.me/fF2lXW, DC|VA http://on.fb.me/gf4beu http://on.fb.me/gf4beu and the RTP http://on.fb.me/dZCrnj http://on.fb.me/dZCrnj
mncolinlee 16y ago
Others have answered the question and there are a few. However, if Paul Graham is looking to inflate the stats ala Campbell's Law... I'm actually a white African-American. ;)

raganwald 16y ago
Actually, there is a standard for the front page, and "We're all smart people, and we can be trusted to make judgements" isn't it. If it were, there would be no need for moderation. We would never need to flag posts or have moderators kill them, because the voting by the smart people making judgments would drive unworthy posts off the front page without any discussion or intervention. There are a lot of reasons why moderation needs to trump voting, but that's probably even more OT. For now, I hope you accept that we should be smart, we should exercise our judgment, AND we should sometimes kill a discussion even if it's popular. p.s. Of course, an argument that moderation trumps voting isn't an argument that this post needs moderation. It gratifies your intellectual curiosity, I get that. So far it doesn't gratify mine, but it could be that I have read an awful lot about this topic over the years and I would like to see an HN discussion have more to say than what I've already read on Reddit over the years, on UseNet, in editorials, and so forth.
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allenbrunson 16y ago
I was all set to vote this up until I got to the last paragraph. It seems that a lot of people have the idea that HN is a democracy, run by the will of the people. Nothing could be further from the truth. pg and the editors have the last word on everything. It's not immediately obvious, because pg doesn't go around saying "I banned this guy because he was a jerk." That's polite of him, but the truth is, quite a few people get banned for being jerks, every day. And quite a few submissions get killed for being off-topic. Having said that, I agree with you that this is a good submission, and I'm a little dismayed that raganwald is arguing against it. When I saw the subject line, and that it had over 100 comments, I figured it was going to be ugly. I was delightfully surprised to find myself honestly learning something from almost every comment I've read here. I haven't upvoted this much stuff in months. Pretty well restored my faith in humanity, it did.

_pius 16y ago

Clearly (1) not all Hacker News questions are in reference to "an interesting new phenomena" and (2) this question isn't a generic discussion of "minority participation" but a YCombinator specific question, which is why it's germane to this forum. I respect you a great deal and that's why I'm disappointed in this comment. It's not only because it's uncharacteristically obtuse, but because it smacks of a disturbing syndrome I've seen in some fellow black people who've "made it." In situations where race comes up, people with this issue go out of their way to let their non-black peers know that they are not interested in discussing race ... unlike all those other blacks they may have heard about. It's no different from a woman trying to fit in with male colleagues by going out of her way to slam any female colleague who files a sexual harassment complaint. It's sad, unnecessary, and adds nothing substantive to the discussion. Let's not look down our noses at other people to make ourselves looks bigger. The question of whether a black person has ever been picked for YCombinator is interesting and at the very least certainly shouldn't be verboten.

raganwald 16y ago
Here's an "Interesting new phenomena" for you to chew on: How dare you suggest that I'm Black? My father is Scottish-Canadian. I went to St. Andrews, a Scottish-themed boarding school. I grew up listening to Rush. I play hockey. I listen to Jazz music. I ride a mountain bike. I'm told I speak with a standard North American accent. What is this "Black" thing you speak of? Now before you answer, let me tell you that I consider that a very interesting question. And the ramifications are extremely interesting to me. I love discussing the question of "Is raganwald actually black?" But is it Hacker News? No. So there you have an example of an issue around "blackness" or "race" that is of great interest to me, but that I do not consider Hacker News. So I say to you that you are mistaken in conflating my suggestion that this question is not Hacker News with some allegations around being disinterested in discussing race. I am interested, I just don't want to discuss it here. I accept that you consider the original question interesting. However, I reject your personal suggestions about my motivations.
- _pius 16y ago
  Here's an "Interesting new phenomena" for you to chew on: How dare you suggest that I'm Black? My father is Scottish-Canadian. I went to St. Andrews, a Scottish-themed boarding school. I grew up listening to Rush. I play hockey. I listen to Jazz music. I ride a mountain bike. I'm told I speak with a standard North American accent. What is this "Black" thing you speak of? I figured you'd say that ... I think you've blogged/spoken about it before and if I'd spent a little more time on the comment, I would have said "are black (or are often considered black by others)." Still applies. If we dismiss the personal aspect of it, what then of the "substantive" piece of the argument? Are you trying to suggest that any questions about the composition of YCombinator classes should be forbidden on Hacker News? If so, why? And why hasn't this come up for all of the myriad other questions of the same ilk?
  - raganwald 16y ago
    I'm not saying anything about the topic. It's really the specific discussion, which at the time I wrote my post, was rather non-specific. Questions I would personally find interesting might include: "I'm black and interested in applying to YCombinator. Does this matter?" "13% of the population is black but 25% of the YCombinator founders are black. Why is that?" "I'm black and pitching my company to VCs. I've noticed that they seem excited after they read my pitch but in person they barrage me with objections and then they don't return my emails. Is it my skin colour or do all founders face this?" It just seems to me that if HN is going to discuss this, there should be something HN-ish about this and not simply a general, non-specific rehash of a jillion other discussions about the participation or lack of participation by blacks in tech. But you know, I'm just one guy, so who really cares what I think? I'm certainly not going to complain bitterly if the discussion leads to positive change. http://weblog.raganwald.com/2007/11/diversity.html http://weblog.raganwald.com/2007/11/diversity.html
    - _pius 16y ago
      I'm not saying anything about the topic. It's really the specific discussion, which at the time I wrote my post, was rather non-specific. ... It just seems to me that if HN is going to discuss this, there should be something HN-ish about this and not simply a general, non-specific rehash of a jillion other discussions about the participation or lack of participation by blacks in tech. "Has YC ever founded a black founder?" seems pretty specific and HN-ish to me. I'm certainly not going to complain bitterly if the discussion leads to positive change. Fair enough. What a sad picture in your post.

Udo 16y ago
That's interesting. I'm from Germany myself, and I'm convinced it's the most unfriendly "western" country ever. There is certainly a lot of racism here, but it generally happens in socially and economically compromised regions with low unemployment, and then it's usually directed toward the Turks (because "they took our jooooooobs"). Not that there are many black people in Germany to begin with, but I worked with a lot of people from different ethnicities over the years and I always got the impression that we're all being treated equally (shitty).
- wheels 16y ago
  That's a fairly typical German viewpoint. It's something that caught me a bit off guard when I moved to Germany 9 years ago. Germans have a real aversion to noticing their own racism, no doubt that's a product of cultural baggage, but racism is pretty rampant in Germany and permeates all levels of society. A few of questions to suss things out a bit: What would you or your friends parents think if you announced your engagement to a Turkish girl / guy? If in most of society racism isn't problematic, what do you think the chances of an ethnically Turkish chancellor being elected are? Why are people whose grandparents immigrated to Germany still commonly referred to as foreigners?
  - Udo 16y ago
    > What would you or your friends parents think if you announced your engagement to a Turkish girl / guy? I have been in a relationship with a Turkish girl for eight years, dude. Everyone was OK with it. Not once did anyone say anything about it. You know what? It was just fine. > That's a fairly typical German viewpoint Did you just assert that I'm a "fairly typical" German racist? If you knew me at all you wouldn't accuse me of painting Germany in an overly positive light. I hate it here.
    - wheels 16y ago
      Sorry, no, my intent was not at all to paint you as being racist. What I meant as "typically German" is that most Germans, even those who are not particularly racist themselves, have something of a blind-spot for noticing the depth of racism within German society. And sure, there are families where race is a non-issue. I could list examples as well of where I've seen things go the other way, but that's side-stepping my point: surely you'd agree that in many, many families it would be an issue?
      - Udo 16y ago
        > even those who are not particularly racist themselves, have something of a blind-spot for noticing the depth of racism within German society. In this context it's worth pointing out that my grandpa was a Nazi, and even worse, as is one of my cousins to this day - in an otherwise lefty-liberal family. So if I want to see racism, I don't have to look very hard. But even the Nazi cousin behaved normally toward my girl friend at the time, I guess his hatred is geared more toward anonymous concepts and not actual people. When I asked him flat-out, he spouted some nonsense about how my girl friend is somehow not part of "The Turkish Problem" at all. > surely you'd agree that in many, many families it would be an issue? I'm not even remotely qualified to answer this in a meaningful way, especially after the feedback I got here today. All I can say is that, being from Germany, I know a lot of people who elevated being mean and destructive into an artform. Some of them are fascists, some of them are bad in other ways. What I can attest to is the general social climate here, it's just as bad as the actual climate.
        Gizzle 16y ago
        Well, I was born in Russia and moved to Germany 20 years ago with my family, I was 11 then. Today I consider myself as German, so far the background. What is really true, even if you speak native German and identify yourself with the people and the country, for most Germans, you are not German. I do not mean it in the negative way, I think it is just the way it is, if you have not a German name or look "Russian". But I do not have/ had any problems with it. Moreover I realized, that although people know you are originally not from Germany, you are valued on your skills (at school, job, sport, etc) and not by you ethnical background. And those people from Russia/Turkey or whatever who claim they are discriminated e.g while looking for a job I just can repeat, no, you just did not tried hard enough. In Russia there is a saying: You are greeted by your look, but bid goodbyed for your skills. I think in Germany this is a very reality.
      - Deorte 16y ago
        May I kindly ask to not pick on Germans in this context?
- elliottcarlson 16y ago
  Interestingly, the same viewpoint exists in Belgium but towards Moroccans and not so much the Turks. The problem is that in the 60's Belgium had a guest worker program which brought the majority of the Turks and Moroccans to Belgium. This helped build up a lot of portions of Belgium however when the worker program was ended in the mid 70's people failed to realize that at this point people had established themselves in a new country and they weren't simply going to go back to their home countries. With family reunification laws these guest workers were able to bring in their families and settle themselves completely. There is a lot of racism back in Belgium towards Moroccans, and they are certainly treated as the minority group (at least when I lived there 10+ years ago). This leads me back to a previous post in this thread, where the bottom line is that minority's aren't offered the same opportunities as other citizens and therefor behave differently back towards society - causing further racism. Sadly this has caused it to go as far as having a far-right political party (Vlaams Blok) gain more and more traction because the views of the populous are slowly matching their viewpoints on nationalism. It would not surprise if the same mentality exist in various other countries that are experiencing the same type of historical issues with regards to racism.
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- makmanalp 16y ago
  Turkish here. The keyword here is probably "socially and economically compromised regions". I haven't felt any hostility or superiority from any Germans I know, and I do know more than a few. In the US, I've also never felt alienated but that might be because my English is at the native level and I don't have a discernible accent (I sound like your average American). When people do find out that I'm Turkish, they seem to be pleasantly surprised and impressed, and I feel like it creates a positive impression of Turks in general. Top tip for foreigners: try to learn the local language well.
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- myearwood 16y ago
  >That's interesting. I'm from Germany myself, and I'm convinced it's the most unfriendly "western" country ever. Unfriendly doesn't mean racist.
pdelgallego 16y ago
As a Hispanic developer living in Copenhagen, I feel neglected in some IT meetings and job interviews.

true_religion 16y ago

> Are things in the USA really so bad that it matters what color your skin is? Isn't tech a business of ideas anyway? Yes, things are so bad. And it must be more than "European" naiveté if you don't believe that people naturally discriminate for people who look like them, or believe the same things as they do. Its the nature of the human beast to not be rational. > Isn't tech a business of ideas anyway? Ah, but now that you mention it... most of us are hiding our faces (and ethnicities) behind our websites copy. So even a B2C company on the internet doesn't have to worry about stereotypes harming their first impressions. Look at Justin.tv, just how many of Michael Seibel's[1] customers and clients do you think know that he is black? [1] http://www.blackenterprise.com/2010/08/28/40-next-michael-seibel/ http://www.blackenterprise.com/2010/08/28/40-next-michael-se...

Udo 16y ago
> people naturally discriminate for people who look like them Do they really, naturally? I don't think that many people are walking around, constantly repeating an inner mantra like "I'm a middle-aged white male", always comparing everyone against what they themselves look like in the mirror? Who does that? > Its the nature of the human beast to not be rational. It's my experience that most humans only think like "beasts" if they have been conditioned to do so. It's not like we have to force ourselves to be rational all the time, is it? Being somewhat rational, friendly and compassionate should be the default position. > Ah, but now that you mention it... most of us are hiding our faces (and ethnicities) behind our websites copy. That's true, and I'm happy about this option. I certainly wouldn't have such a great time on the net if people could actually hear or see me. But being black is not the same as being ugly. > just how many of Michael Seibel's[1] customers and clients do you think know that he is black How many care?
- true_religion 16y ago
  > Do they really, naturally? I don't think that many people are walking around, constantly repeating an inner mantra like "I'm a white middle-aged male", always comparing everyone against what they themselves look like in the mirror? Who does that? The term "naturally" implies that it is an automatic function (e.g. breathing is natural). Did you not realize this or are you intentionally leaping to the straw-man argument? > It's my experience that most humans are only thinking like "beasts" if they have been conditioned to do so. I didn't mean "beast" in any bad sense. I simply meant that human beings are evolved creatures, hormonal, emotional, and often instinctive in their approach to social situations. We are not a rational abstraction. We don't have to 'force' ourselves to be rational all the time, because mostly we aren't rational and rationality would be the long method of coming to the same conclusions. The typical person doesn't have to rationally process every quirk of someones facial or body language to decide on what emotion is expressed---that would take forever. Instead we have mental shortcuts built into our psyche which while are irrational, are also usually correct. When it comes to issues like racism, it is a case of our natural instinct being wrong instead of right for a change. Yes some people are ever curious about the "other", but this isn't the norm. For further discussion, can anyone find a copy of this article ( http://dlib.eastview.com/browse/doc/12134981 http://dlib.eastview.com/browse/doc/12134981 ) outside the Paywall so everyone can see it?
  - Udo 16y ago
    I know what you meant by naturally. I also think we could discuss this for ages and not come to an agreement. I don't subscribe to evolutionary pop psychology, we're simply not speaking the same language.
    - true_religion 16y ago
      You're right... if you're going to call it pop psychology then you've thrown the entire theory in the bin before discussion has begun.
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