5 ms·

A handful of incidents like these are being distorted and blown up by media that treats cop lies uncritically. In comparison, just a few nights ago, cops were b

by 0x262d 6y ago

A handful of incidents like these are being distorted and blown up by media that treats cop lies uncritically. In comparison, just a few nights ago, cops were beating people and filling the area with tear gas (banned under geneva convention) and it was seeping into residential homes so badly that even nextdoor is anti-police in that area now.

free_rms 6y ago
More relevantly, they were specifically ordered by their city council not to use tear gas and then went ahead and did it anyways, all over the city. I'd like to think, regardless of anyone's politics, we could all agree that the elected government should have authority over the police.
- DenisM 6y ago
  Can you clarify the timeline? AFAIK the police used tear-gas, then they were ordered to stop by the mayor, then they stopped and switched to other means like mace. Do you know differently?
  - 0x262d 6y ago
    that's correct, although the mayor (who has been very supportive of them forever, incidentally had Amazon campaign donation $350k) built various loopholes into the initial ban (namely, that the police chief could allow them to start re-using it). so, yeah, not much of a ban in the first place by the mayor.
  - Pfhreak 6y ago
    The Mayor ordered them to stop using one specific type of tear gas -- CS gas -- last Friday. For one day, the police used alternatives including mace, pepper balls, steel cored rubber bullets, flashbangs, and smoke with irritating agents. However, by Sunday (or maybe early, early Monday morning), the police were using CS gas again at the order of the police chief, Carmen Best.
    - DenisM 6y ago
      >However, by Sunday (or maybe early, early Monday morning), the police were using CS gas again at the order of the police chief, Carmen Best. I did not know that. Do you have a reference to back this up?
      - loeg 6y ago
        Chief Best said so herself at the June 11 press conference[1]. 18:22: Reporter: "So, Chief Best, you stood here on Friday and you said it was going to be your decision and your decision alone to use tear gas. Tear gas was deployed on Sunday. You released a video today to say that it was not your decision to close the East Precinct. So who is making tactical decisions right now, for the Seattle Police Department?" 18:51: Best: "So for the tear gas, it was my decision. ... We suspended the use for 30 days unless it was a 'life safety situation.' And that was the exemption. ... The officers felt like it was a 'life safety situation' ... and I concurred." 19:27: Best: "I own that decision. I made that decision." Here's a press conference transcript from June 7 where they claimed they would stop using CS gas[2]. Here's a secondary source reporting on the June 11 press conference[3]. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rE4VMjClqI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rE4VMjClqI [2]: https://durkan.seattle.gov/2020/06/transcript-mayor-durkans-remarks-at-sunday-june-7-press-conference/ https://durkan.seattle.gov/2020/06/transcript-mayor-durkans-... [3]: https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2020/06/11/43893335/durkan-and-best-arent-resigning https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2020/06/11/43893335/durkan-...
        DenisM 6y ago
        Thank you.
throwaway894345 6y ago
> media that treats cop lies uncritically Which media is that?
- 0xB31B1B 6y ago
  cable news, evening news, most news on TV. Its a weirdly common viewpoint, at least after the past 2 weeks, that law enforcement officers do not lie.
  - throwaway894345 6y ago
    Oh, weird. I don't watch much TV news, and the online media is playing the opposite game.
  - 0x262d 6y ago
    that's always been common. the "better" (not really) approach is to simply report "police reported that x, y, z happened" without any sort of critical perspective or fact check at all.
- uoaei 6y ago
  There is a very strong correlation between: local news stations with sizeable real estate interests (i.e., aligned with the interests of property owners, speculative real estate investors, and yuppies interested in moving to "safe, updated neighborhoods" that have been recently cleared out of the poors) and local news stations that print police press releases almost verbatim with absolutely no journalism actually being performed. For more info: https://citationsneeded.libsyn.com/episode-54-local-crime-reporting-as-police-stenography https://citationsneeded.libsyn.com/episode-54-local-crime-re...
baryphonic 6y ago
I find it hard to take comments seriously when they make statements that just don't accord with reality. The media treats cops according to what's best for the story. Lately, that involves being extremely critical of them. In other times when we aren't in the midst of a pandemic, mass unemployment and then nationwide protests, and the story is that the cops shot a criminal suspect, they use euphemisms like "officer-involved shooting." The media narrative today is extremely hostile to police. So when I see "only a handful of incidents," I feel there might be a bit of an agenda behind that. Knocking down the World Trade Center twin towers and a side of the Pentagon were only a "handful of incidents," too. Not to mention the number of unarmed black people shot by police last year (nine total). All of those are a disgrace, but the sheer number of atrocities that happen are irrelevant to how unjust or outrageous the atrocities might be.
- 0x262d 6y ago
  Viewing the media's relationship to police as being simply for or against them based on swings of public opinion is incorrect, it is maybe partially true but there is a strong and consistent bias towards law and order by corporate (private for profit) media. There are numerous reporters in Seattle still uncritically reporting police lies. There are a handful who are being more critical. Guess who has more resources and broader reach?

by 0x262d 6y ago

free_rms 6y ago

More relevantly, they were specifically ordered by their city council not to use tear gas and then went ahead and did it anyways, all over the city. I'd like to think, regardless of anyone's politics, we could all agree that the elected government should have authority over the police.

DenisM 6y ago
Can you clarify the timeline? AFAIK the police used tear-gas, then they were ordered to stop by the mayor, then they stopped and switched to other means like mace. Do you know differently?
- 0x262d 6y ago
  that's correct, although the mayor (who has been very supportive of them forever, incidentally had Amazon campaign donation $350k) built various loopholes into the initial ban (namely, that the police chief could allow them to start re-using it). so, yeah, not much of a ban in the first place by the mayor.
- Pfhreak 6y ago
  The Mayor ordered them to stop using one specific type of tear gas -- CS gas -- last Friday. For one day, the police used alternatives including mace, pepper balls, steel cored rubber bullets, flashbangs, and smoke with irritating agents. However, by Sunday (or maybe early, early Monday morning), the police were using CS gas again at the order of the police chief, Carmen Best.
  - DenisM 6y ago
    >However, by Sunday (or maybe early, early Monday morning), the police were using CS gas again at the order of the police chief, Carmen Best. I did not know that. Do you have a reference to back this up?
    - loeg 6y ago
      Chief Best said so herself at the June 11 press conference[1]. 18:22: Reporter: "So, Chief Best, you stood here on Friday and you said it was going to be your decision and your decision alone to use tear gas. Tear gas was deployed on Sunday. You released a video today to say that it was not your decision to close the East Precinct. So who is making tactical decisions right now, for the Seattle Police Department?" 18:51: Best: "So for the tear gas, it was my decision. ... We suspended the use for 30 days unless it was a 'life safety situation.' And that was the exemption. ... The officers felt like it was a 'life safety situation' ... and I concurred." 19:27: Best: "I own that decision. I made that decision." Here's a press conference transcript from June 7 where they claimed they would stop using CS gas[2]. Here's a secondary source reporting on the June 11 press conference[3]. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rE4VMjClqI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rE4VMjClqI [2]: https://durkan.seattle.gov/2020/06/transcript-mayor-durkans-remarks-at-sunday-june-7-press-conference/ https://durkan.seattle.gov/2020/06/transcript-mayor-durkans-... [3]: https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2020/06/11/43893335/durkan-and-best-arent-resigning https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2020/06/11/43893335/durkan-...
      - DenisM 6y ago
        Thank you.

throwaway894345 6y ago

> media that treats cop lies uncritically Which media is that?

0xB31B1B 6y ago
cable news, evening news, most news on TV. Its a weirdly common viewpoint, at least after the past 2 weeks, that law enforcement officers do not lie.
- throwaway894345 6y ago
  Oh, weird. I don't watch much TV news, and the online media is playing the opposite game.
- 0x262d 6y ago
  that's always been common. the "better" (not really) approach is to simply report "police reported that x, y, z happened" without any sort of critical perspective or fact check at all.
uoaei 6y ago
There is a very strong correlation between: local news stations with sizeable real estate interests (i.e., aligned with the interests of property owners, speculative real estate investors, and yuppies interested in moving to "safe, updated neighborhoods" that have been recently cleared out of the poors) and local news stations that print police press releases almost verbatim with absolutely no journalism actually being performed. For more info: https://citationsneeded.libsyn.com/episode-54-local-crime-reporting-as-police-stenography https://citationsneeded.libsyn.com/episode-54-local-crime-re...

baryphonic 6y ago

I find it hard to take comments seriously when they make statements that just don't accord with reality. The media treats cops according to what's best for the story. Lately, that involves being extremely critical of them. In other times when we aren't in the midst of a pandemic, mass unemployment and then nationwide protests, and the story is that the cops shot a criminal suspect, they use euphemisms like "officer-involved shooting." The media narrative today is extremely hostile to police. So when I see "only a handful of incidents," I feel there might be a bit of an agenda behind that. Knocking down the World Trade Center twin towers and a side of the Pentagon were only a "handful of incidents," too. Not to mention the number of unarmed black people shot by police last year (nine total). All of those are a disgrace, but the sheer number of atrocities that happen are irrelevant to how unjust or outrageous the atrocities might be.

0x262d 6y ago
Viewing the media's relationship to police as being simply for or against them based on swings of public opinion is incorrect, it is maybe partially true but there is a strong and consistent bias towards law and order by corporate (private for profit) media. There are numerous reporters in Seattle still uncritically reporting police lies. There are a handful who are being more critical. Guess who has more resources and broader reach?