8 ms·

>From what I can see, the proposed solution to "institutional racism" is to browbeat everybody into thinking nicer thoughts. This is a straw man, everything ab

>From what I can see, the proposed solution to "institutional racism" is to browbeat everybody into thinking nicer thoughts. This is a straw man, everything about the current push ("from what I can see") is towards exactly the types of anti corruption efforts you described.

Jtsummers 6y ago
Exactly. - Deescalation training - Defunding (extreme) - Demilitarizing the police - Community outreach - Reduce over-policing etc. These are the things that have been talked about and pushed for the past decade (well, in some circles decades, but nationally it's a conversation that comes and goes, but has stayed at the top the past decade or so).
pdonis 6y ago
> everything about the current push ("from what I can see") is towards exactly the types of anti corruption efforts you described Not "everything" is. Yes, "anti-corruption efforts" are being pushed. But you have shifted your ground. Now you're talking about "anti corruption efforts". Before you were talking about "institutional racism". The latter is, as I said, narrower; it amounts to saying, first, that the institutional corruption has racism as its sole or primary root cause (which I think is false--I think racism is a symptom of corruption, but not the only one, and certainly not its cause), and second, that the only reason to fix institutional corruption is to fix racism (which is also false). And that is exactly the kind of rhetoric I see all over the place. The reason to fix institutional corruption is that it's corruption. Citizens of every demographic are affected by institutional corruption and want to fix it. I think it's much better to unite around that common goal than to talk about "racism", which is only going to divide people who should be united against corruption.
- Benjammer 6y ago
  Man, you're really picking at straws here. If you want to nit pick about "the most effective" actions, then what about the dampening effect on the overall momentum that people like you have, however minor, when you decide that certain specific wording absolutely needs to be tweaked before you will support the cause?
  - pdonis 6y ago
    Words matter because they describe what, specifically, "the cause" is that I'm supposed to be supporting. What's the next demand going to be after corruption in the police is fixed?
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
- cvlasdkv 6y ago
  You are essentially arguing for class-based solidarity against the capitalist imperative for oppression and "corruption" in the name of profits. I'm not sure if these are original thoughts or inspired by reading leftist works but I agree with you. But as words are important it's important to not dismiss intentional, systemic racism that we know definitely exists.

Jtsummers 6y ago

Exactly. - Deescalation training - Defunding (extreme) - Demilitarizing the police - Community outreach - Reduce over-policing etc. These are the things that have been talked about and pushed for the past decade (well, in some circles decades, but nationally it's a conversation that comes and goes, but has stayed at the top the past decade or so).

pdonis 6y ago

> everything about the current push ("from what I can see") is towards exactly the types of anti corruption efforts you described Not "everything" is. Yes, "anti-corruption efforts" are being pushed. But you have shifted your ground. Now you're talking about "anti corruption efforts". Before you were talking about "institutional racism". The latter is, as I said, narrower; it amounts to saying, first, that the institutional corruption has racism as its sole or primary root cause (which I think is false--I think racism is a symptom of corruption, but not the only one, and certainly not its cause), and second, that the only reason to fix institutional corruption is to fix racism (which is also false). And that is exactly the kind of rhetoric I see all over the place. The reason to fix institutional corruption is that it's corruption. Citizens of every demographic are affected by institutional corruption and want to fix it. I think it's much better to unite around that common goal than to talk about "racism", which is only going to divide people who should be united against corruption.

Benjammer 6y ago
Man, you're really picking at straws here. If you want to nit pick about "the most effective" actions, then what about the dampening effect on the overall momentum that people like you have, however minor, when you decide that certain specific wording absolutely needs to be tweaked before you will support the cause?
- pdonis 6y ago
  Words matter because they describe what, specifically, "the cause" is that I'm supposed to be supporting. What's the next demand going to be after corruption in the police is fixed?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
cvlasdkv 6y ago
You are essentially arguing for class-based solidarity against the capitalist imperative for oppression and "corruption" in the name of profits. I'm not sure if these are original thoughts or inspired by reading leftist works but I agree with you. But as words are important it's important to not dismiss intentional, systemic racism that we know definitely exists.