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A better link for imagery of the product: https://system76.com/laptops/serval https://system76.com/laptops/serval I don't understand why System 76 keyboards fo

A better link for imagery of the product: https://system76.com/laptops/serval https://system76.com/laptops/serval I don't understand why System 76 keyboards for their higher end laptops include a numeric keypad. Doesn't seem worth the downside of narrowing keys that I'll predominantly use. Is there much demand for numeric keypads that aren't better served with an external USB addition? Is it because the internals or screen need the extra width anyway and they're filling in what would be unused space?

_ZeD_ 6y ago
I find inconceable to NOT have a numerical keypad (and a proper cluster of home/end/pgup/pgdown/ins/canc keys). Lately I find even 17" laptops without the numeric keypad (but with empty spaces at the borders...), it's very unsettling.
mnm1 6y ago
This is the reason I won't consider most of their laptops. I understand they use an oem and the oem doesn't give a shit about design, usability, ergonomics, or practicality. That's why it's like this. Most laptop vendors simply don't give a fuck about design or quality. Making unusable laptops is the norm. You can't expect to have a reasonable explanation of something no one has given a second's thought to. This is why people like Apple although they have adopted mostly the same stance nowadays.
- bdefore 6y ago
  To nitpick on Apple in the keyboard realm, I've never understood Apple's decision to make arrow keys half the size of other keys, presumably to fit them into the corner. I use them significantly more than most other keys and I'd much rather sacrifice the right shift key width to fit them all in as normal. It's been at least a decade of this travesty.
  - mnm1 6y ago
    Actually the 2016 to early 2019 mbpros (and maybe airs) had the full size keys. People generally hated then because they are hard to pick out by touch. But you can grab one if you don't mind getting a keyboard that will likely break and has no escape key as a trade-off.
    - bdefore 6y ago
      Didn't realize that. I could see how it's harder to go by feel without the gap around them. Adding some texture to them could mitigate that.

_ZeD_ 6y ago

I find inconceable to NOT have a numerical keypad (and a proper cluster of home/end/pgup/pgdown/ins/canc keys). Lately I find even 17" laptops without the numeric keypad (but with empty spaces at the borders...), it's very unsettling.

mnm1 6y ago

This is the reason I won't consider most of their laptops. I understand they use an oem and the oem doesn't give a shit about design, usability, ergonomics, or practicality. That's why it's like this. Most laptop vendors simply don't give a fuck about design or quality. Making unusable laptops is the norm. You can't expect to have a reasonable explanation of something no one has given a second's thought to. This is why people like Apple although they have adopted mostly the same stance nowadays.

bdefore 6y ago
To nitpick on Apple in the keyboard realm, I've never understood Apple's decision to make arrow keys half the size of other keys, presumably to fit them into the corner. I use them significantly more than most other keys and I'd much rather sacrifice the right shift key width to fit them all in as normal. It's been at least a decade of this travesty.
- mnm1 6y ago
  Actually the 2016 to early 2019 mbpros (and maybe airs) had the full size keys. People generally hated then because they are hard to pick out by touch. But you can grab one if you don't mind getting a keyboard that will likely break and has no escape key as a trade-off.
  - bdefore 6y ago
    Didn't realize that. I could see how it's harder to go by feel without the gap around them. Adding some texture to them could mitigate that.