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> Following someone around everywhere they go, waiting outside of their house, and writing down everything you see them doing is not. So you are saying private

by umvi 6y ago

> Following someone around everywhere they go, waiting outside of their house, and writing down everything you see them doing is not. So you are saying private investigator is an illegal occupation?

mindslight 6y ago
The standard used for the sentence you quoted was "socially acceptable". Legally, private investigators operate in a grey area, and private investigators know this. Regardless, lone private investigators are nowhere near the level of scale where it is happening to everyone at once.
- umvi 6y ago
  Do you have evidence that the scale of this is as large as you say? If Walmart maintains facial recognition records, and so does Target, but they are kept in separate data vaults, that is not large scale. Each company is just making their own observations about their own property. If the US federal government tracks facial recognition in all stores and public spaces in all states, well that is large scale.
  - mindslight 6y ago
    In this instance, the "list of suspicious persons" is obviously some shared surveillance database, not just people who were previously kicked out of the Rose Bowl. In general, retailers share surveillance data with commercial surveillance bureaus, for example Retail Equation. Power always coalesces. Also "own property" is utterly fallacious. I'm pretty sure my face is my property. It feels like you're just grasping at various reductionist straws here.
    - umvi 6y ago
      Yeah but you don't own information about your face, even though you own your face. Most people agree information is free for the taking by any observers (unless you are a strong supporter of illegal numbers and such). Say we invent technology that allows you to dump memories from your brain to png images or mp4. Now say I look at you and later dump my memory of your face to a png and upload it to my own personal image analysis pipeline. Have I violated your privacy? What if I share it with others? Am I not allowed to share my own memories?
PeterisP 6y ago
Yes, in many countries some of the activities of the sterotypical old Hollywood movie "private eye" would be a crime; and the concept of "private investigators" is very limited in the scope of what they can do and thus very rare and obscure.

by umvi 6y ago

> Following someone around everywhere they go, waiting outside of their house, and writing down everything you see them doing is not. So you are saying private investigator is an illegal occupation?

mindslight 6y ago

The standard used for the sentence you quoted was "socially acceptable". Legally, private investigators operate in a grey area, and private investigators know this. Regardless, lone private investigators are nowhere near the level of scale where it is happening to everyone at once.

umvi 6y ago
Do you have evidence that the scale of this is as large as you say? If Walmart maintains facial recognition records, and so does Target, but they are kept in separate data vaults, that is not large scale. Each company is just making their own observations about their own property. If the US federal government tracks facial recognition in all stores and public spaces in all states, well that is large scale.
- mindslight 6y ago
  In this instance, the "list of suspicious persons" is obviously some shared surveillance database, not just people who were previously kicked out of the Rose Bowl. In general, retailers share surveillance data with commercial surveillance bureaus, for example Retail Equation. Power always coalesces. Also "own property" is utterly fallacious. I'm pretty sure my face is my property. It feels like you're just grasping at various reductionist straws here.
  - umvi 6y ago
    Yeah but you don't own information about your face, even though you own your face. Most people agree information is free for the taking by any observers (unless you are a strong supporter of illegal numbers and such). Say we invent technology that allows you to dump memories from your brain to png images or mp4. Now say I look at you and later dump my memory of your face to a png and upload it to my own personal image analysis pipeline. Have I violated your privacy? What if I share it with others? Am I not allowed to share my own memories?

PeterisP 6y ago

Yes, in many countries some of the activities of the sterotypical old Hollywood movie "private eye" would be a crime; and the concept of "private investigators" is very limited in the scope of what they can do and thus very rare and obscure.