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That's great that German police are trained to react that way. But American police are not. American police are trained to prioritize their own safety and survi

That's great that German police are trained to react that way. But American police are not. American police are trained to prioritize their own safety and survival above the safety and survival of suspects or even innocent bystanders. There's no consideration of intention or what information people are acting on - if there's a potentially lethal threat to the policeman, it must be dominated and suppressed. So yes, with a practical understanding of how American police train and operate, this outcome is completely expected.

hef19898 6y ago
In the above case, the killed officer was already dead. Returning fire would have killed the suspect and maybe more officers. Not to safe if you ask me. Identifying themselves as police was the prudent thing, having done so upfront would most likely have saved an officers live.
gpm 6y ago
Being trained to break the law does not (legally) justify breaking the law. I'm not sure if shooting someone in "self defense" who is legally shooting at you is illegal under US law, it's an interesting thought though.
- jacobush 6y ago
  There's precedent to say its legal to return fire.
  - OGWhales 6y ago
    As an intruder?
    - jacobush 6y ago
      I can't really remember the case, but there was a standoff where a (white) person returned fire against law enforcement after they shot his dog. In the end I think one law enforcement officer was killed on one side, and that guys wife, child and dog was on the other side. There was no punishment for the killing of the LEO.
      - xyzzyz 6y ago
        The incident you’re referring to is Ruby Ridge. There has been much more disconduct by the feds than just shooting guy’s dog, and his acquittal did not hinge on the fact that they shot his dog first.
        jacobush 6y ago
        No, I didn't mean to imply it.
neuronic 6y ago
American police aren't trained. It's literally idiots on steroids watching 3 YouTube videos for "training" combined with some shitty version of some martial arts. They are not capable of solving anything without authority, force and violence. Just stacked with military equipment and tools to escalate anything until a "suspect" breaks - mentally or physically.
mcv 6y ago
> "American police are trained to prioritize their own safety and survival above the safety and survival of suspects or even innocent bystanders." But they're trained very badly at that. They're trained to escalate, which endangers everybody, including themselves.
nicoburns 6y ago
Isn't this one of the main things that people are protesting about. Police shouldn't be trained like this. They could also carry things like tasers which allow them to protect themselves without killing anyone.
- Zxian 6y ago
  Correction: while minimizing the risk of death. Tasers can still kill people. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Dzieka%C5%84ski_Taser_incident https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Dzieka%C5%84ski_Taser...
  - nicoburns 6y ago
    They certainly can. But they're a lot less likely to than a gun. I think their use would be justified in the case that a policeman was being shot at.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

hef19898 6y ago

In the above case, the killed officer was already dead. Returning fire would have killed the suspect and maybe more officers. Not to safe if you ask me. Identifying themselves as police was the prudent thing, having done so upfront would most likely have saved an officers live.

gpm 6y ago

Being trained to break the law does not (legally) justify breaking the law. I'm not sure if shooting someone in "self defense" who is legally shooting at you is illegal under US law, it's an interesting thought though.

jacobush 6y ago
There's precedent to say its legal to return fire.
- OGWhales 6y ago
  As an intruder?
  - jacobush 6y ago
    I can't really remember the case, but there was a standoff where a (white) person returned fire against law enforcement after they shot his dog. In the end I think one law enforcement officer was killed on one side, and that guys wife, child and dog was on the other side. There was no punishment for the killing of the LEO.
    - xyzzyz 6y ago
      The incident you’re referring to is Ruby Ridge. There has been much more disconduct by the feds than just shooting guy’s dog, and his acquittal did not hinge on the fact that they shot his dog first.
      - jacobush 6y ago
        No, I didn't mean to imply it.

neuronic 6y ago

American police aren't trained. It's literally idiots on steroids watching 3 YouTube videos for "training" combined with some shitty version of some martial arts. They are not capable of solving anything without authority, force and violence. Just stacked with military equipment and tools to escalate anything until a "suspect" breaks - mentally or physically.

mcv 6y ago

> "American police are trained to prioritize their own safety and survival above the safety and survival of suspects or even innocent bystanders." But they're trained very badly at that. They're trained to escalate, which endangers everybody, including themselves.

nicoburns 6y ago

Isn't this one of the main things that people are protesting about. Police shouldn't be trained like this. They could also carry things like tasers which allow them to protect themselves without killing anyone.

Zxian 6y ago
Correction: while minimizing the risk of death. Tasers can still kill people. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Dzieka%C5%84ski_Taser_incident https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Dzieka%C5%84ski_Taser...
- nicoburns 6y ago
  They certainly can. But they're a lot less likely to than a gun. I think their use would be justified in the case that a policeman was being shot at.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]