4 ms·

> Think of having to pay rent to live in your own house. So land taxes?

by bb123 6y ago

lordofgibbons 6y ago
I hope you enjoy roads leading up to your house, and schooling for your children because that's what your land tax is paying for. This is more like "protection" racket
- dillonmckay 6y ago
  So, if I stop paying my landtax, they take away the roads and schools, or take away my home?
  - huffmsa 6y ago
    3) they take away you.
    - kls 6y ago
      Not for land taxes at least not in the US, if you do not pay your land taxes, the bill goes up for auction, someone pays it and you owe that person interest and principle. If you do not pay it for a certain amount of years, they can call for an auction of the asset and they are the first guarantee of settlement for their principle and interest. Then mortgage, then mechanics lien, etc. etc.
      - kgermino 6y ago
        That definitely varies. In my area the city just takes your house, evicts you, and auctions the property.
        kls 6y ago
        Yes in some municipalities, they do not create a security out of the debt, but I believe the majority of municipalities do.
- ethanwillis 6y ago
  Well to be fair that's not the only thing land tax is paying for and it's in dispute whether the allocation is "correct." And people would still like roads and schooling for their children whether the government provides it or not. It's interesting how even under our current system people still build these things privately.
- bb123 6y ago
  I'm in the UK, which doesn't have land taxes. Stamp duty is one time payment.
  - daveoc64 6y ago
    So you pay Council Tax then, which is pretty much the equivalent.
gspr 6y ago
> So land taxes? It's entirely different, because those are under the control of the people. You (presumably) have a lot of protections when it comes to speaking your mind regarding those, and voting rights when it comes to electing the people who set those taxes. Your fridge maker has no obligation to listen to you.
- phkahler 6y ago
  Poor analogy. You vote with your dollars and it's a lot more direct than government. You can vote out you fridge today.
  - gspr 6y ago
    > Poor analogy. You vote with your dollars and it's a lot more direct than government. You can vote out you fridge today. My ability to "vote" out my fridge is directly correlated with the thickness of my wallet. I, for one, would be disgusted to live in a society where that's equated with voting power.
    - nybble41 6y ago
      If you don't personally have the ability to veto an expense you disagree with then your "voting power" is essentially nil. You are under no obligation to buy a refrigerator, no matter what anyone else thinks. You are forced to pay taxes, even when they are spent on things that are directly harmful to you, never mind things you merely have no interest in purchasing.
      - gspr 6y ago
        To live a reasonable modern life you are in practice forced to buy a fridge. You are not forced to pay taxes. Owning property and earning money are choices, if you wanna take it to this ridiculous extreme.
        nybble41 6y ago
franga2000 6y ago
1. Land is inherently finite, so you owning some necessarily means everyone else can have less. There is no way to compare that to a mass-produced product. 2. Taxes fund a big part of what gives land more value. If you own the land, that means you're getting a part of that value, meaning you should be paying for it.
- epr 6y ago
  Anything composed of matter is by definition finite from an economic standpoint. Even if you assume an infinite amount of something in an infinitely large universe, you still at minimum have a cost of transport, and likely a wide variety of other costs including manufacturing. There is nothing special about land in this regard.
  - franga2000 6y ago
    I'm not saying things other than land have no value/costs (I think that's what you were implying?). Setting aside the long-term "everything on this planet is finite" and the even less useful "the universe is infinite" arguments, as none of them operate on a time scale that's relevant to an individual today, land is finite in a way that very few things are. All the land there is already belongs to someone. The only way to get land, is to buy/take it from someone else. We can't make more, even with immense resources (no, artificial islands and reclaiming oceans aren't viable enough to matter yet). Someone can single-handedly destroy the supply with a one-time cost. Fridges aren't finite in the same way, as we can always make more, as long as we have the resources. If we run out of resources, we may be able to figure out how to make them out of different resources. If we run out of those, we have a much bigger problem than fridges and no time to talk about economics. As it stands now, if someone wants to destroy the supply of fridges, they would have to keep buying them as they are made almost indefinitely (i.e. NOT a one-time cost). Once we run out of all the base materials to construct fridges with and the "fridge economy" is based entirely on trading working fridges and recycling old ones for material to make more, then you can start to compare the two.
    - epr 6y ago

> Think of having to pay rent to live in your own house. So land taxes?

by bb123 6y ago

> Think of having to pay rent to live in your own house. So land taxes?

I hope you enjoy roads leading up to your house, and schooling for your children because that's what your land tax is paying for. This is more like "protection" racket

dillonmckay 6y ago
So, if I stop paying my landtax, they take away the roads and schools, or take away my home?
- huffmsa 6y ago
  3) they take away you.
  - kls 6y ago
    Not for land taxes at least not in the US, if you do not pay your land taxes, the bill goes up for auction, someone pays it and you owe that person interest and principle. If you do not pay it for a certain amount of years, they can call for an auction of the asset and they are the first guarantee of settlement for their principle and interest. Then mortgage, then mechanics lien, etc. etc.
    - kgermino 6y ago
      That definitely varies. In my area the city just takes your house, evicts you, and auctions the property.
      - kls 6y ago
        Yes in some municipalities, they do not create a security out of the debt, but I believe the majority of municipalities do.
ethanwillis 6y ago
Well to be fair that's not the only thing land tax is paying for and it's in dispute whether the allocation is "correct." And people would still like roads and schooling for their children whether the government provides it or not. It's interesting how even under our current system people still build these things privately.
bb123 6y ago
I'm in the UK, which doesn't have land taxes. Stamp duty is one time payment.
- daveoc64 6y ago
  So you pay Council Tax then, which is pretty much the equivalent.

gspr 6y ago

> So land taxes? It's entirely different, because those are under the control of the people. You (presumably) have a lot of protections when it comes to speaking your mind regarding those, and voting rights when it comes to electing the people who set those taxes. Your fridge maker has no obligation to listen to you.

phkahler 6y ago
Poor analogy. You vote with your dollars and it's a lot more direct than government. You can vote out you fridge today.
- gspr 6y ago
  > Poor analogy. You vote with your dollars and it's a lot more direct than government. You can vote out you fridge today. My ability to "vote" out my fridge is directly correlated with the thickness of my wallet. I, for one, would be disgusted to live in a society where that's equated with voting power.
  - nybble41 6y ago
    If you don't personally have the ability to veto an expense you disagree with then your "voting power" is essentially nil. You are under no obligation to buy a refrigerator, no matter what anyone else thinks. You are forced to pay taxes, even when they are spent on things that are directly harmful to you, never mind things you merely have no interest in purchasing.
    - gspr 6y ago
      To live a reasonable modern life you are in practice forced to buy a fridge. You are not forced to pay taxes. Owning property and earning money are choices, if you wanna take it to this ridiculous extreme.
      - nybble41 6y ago

franga2000 6y ago

1. Land is inherently finite, so you owning some necessarily means everyone else can have less. There is no way to compare that to a mass-produced product. 2. Taxes fund a big part of what gives land more value. If you own the land, that means you're getting a part of that value, meaning you should be paying for it.

epr 6y ago
Anything composed of matter is by definition finite from an economic standpoint. Even if you assume an infinite amount of something in an infinitely large universe, you still at minimum have a cost of transport, and likely a wide variety of other costs including manufacturing. There is nothing special about land in this regard.
- franga2000 6y ago
  I'm not saying things other than land have no value/costs (I think that's what you were implying?). Setting aside the long-term "everything on this planet is finite" and the even less useful "the universe is infinite" arguments, as none of them operate on a time scale that's relevant to an individual today, land is finite in a way that very few things are. All the land there is already belongs to someone. The only way to get land, is to buy/take it from someone else. We can't make more, even with immense resources (no, artificial islands and reclaiming oceans aren't viable enough to matter yet). Someone can single-handedly destroy the supply with a one-time cost. Fridges aren't finite in the same way, as we can always make more, as long as we have the resources. If we run out of resources, we may be able to figure out how to make them out of different resources. If we run out of those, we have a much bigger problem than fridges and no time to talk about economics. As it stands now, if someone wants to destroy the supply of fridges, they would have to keep buying them as they are made almost indefinitely (i.e. NOT a one-time cost). Once we run out of all the base materials to construct fridges with and the "fridge economy" is based entirely on trading working fridges and recycling old ones for material to make more, then you can start to compare the two.
  - epr 6y ago