6 ms·

Collecting machines from craigslist is a necessary part of the hobby, imo. A 1,000 dollar Powermatic tablesaw is functionally immortal. It will always be wort

by RNCTX 6y ago

Collecting machines from craigslist is a necessary part of the hobby, imo. A 1,000 dollar Powermatic tablesaw is functionally immortal. It will always be worth 1,000 dollars, so you buy it and use it until you don't need it, then sell it to someone else for what you paid for it. When I last had a big shop full of stuff at home, my machine and cost list was... 1) Used Powermatic 66 table saw ($1000) 2) A used Woodmaster 18" planer ($1200) 3) A router table I spec'd to my local machine shop which attached as a replacement wing on the Powermatic 66 to share its fence ($500) 4) A used Grizzly 8" jointer ($500) 5) An "American Sawmill Machinery Unipoint" miter saw from the 1950s ($300) (^) 6) A General International mortiser ($1000) 7) Couple of routers, one big one and one 1.5hp one ($600) (^) This was the best machine I ever had, sold it for $500 when I was done with it. Imagine a miter saw that's all cast iron rather than aluminum and plastic that can cut invisible miter joints. So not 8,000, more like 4,000-5,000 if you buy a bunch of used stuff. I can't think of a reason to buy new woodworking machines, when there are so many used machines floating around craigslist or exfactory on any given day. Any of these machines could be lesser/smaller alternatives, which would not limit the quality of output but rather just limit the size of raw materials you could use and perhaps slightly increase waste. For instance there's no reason you can't cut small pieces on a small table saw and break down 4x8 sheets of ply with a Skil saw. The only thing the big cast iron saw gives you is the ability to skip the Skil saw and minimize waste, really. Similarly, anything that I did on my custom built router table (or a shaper) could be done with a hand router and jigs, it'll just take more time to build the jigs. About 80% of woodworking is learning 'clever tricks' and learning how to conceptualize jigs to accomplish repetitive tasks accurately. Machines can do it for money but your brain can do it for cheap, just a matter of learning how. Look at this dude: https://youtu.be/RYzgP_Ucs1I https://youtu.be/RYzgP_Ucs1I Doesn't have a shaper but he has raised panels at the end of the day ;). I mean, I've stumbled across guys that make a living building wooden windows, doors, and cabinet doors with a small army of used Powermatic 2A tenoners (no longer being made, you can only buy them used). They're not required to build a cabinet door, though, they just reduce it to unskilled labor simplicity.

rkangel 6y ago
This is a route I'd love to go down, but for someone who's newer at this it's hard to know which are the solid immortal ones, and which ones are probably already broken. If anyone can recommend UK equivalents to some of these brands I'd be very grateful!
- RNCTX 6y ago
  Generally, older is better and if you can put a phase converter in (to use 3 phase motors on residential single phase power) you will find better deals. Reason being, industrial businesses will sell off used machines way cheap when they upgrade or replace. Their stuff is a cut above the home use stuff like what I listed above. 5 horsepower is the upper end of what you can get from a single phase 220v motor. 3 phase motors can well exceed that limit. Otherwise, these machines are really very simple. Most of their mass is cast parts which don’t wear or break. The wear items are just bearings and belts which can be replaced. The only thing to be careful of is bent derive shafts on the motors. Take a dial indicator and measure the run out of the motor shaft on a used machine. If it doesn’t wobble and the motor runs ok you’re fine, buy it and polish it up.
mauvehaus 6y ago
That's a nice fuckin' miter saw[1] for $300! At that price you practically stole it, and you pretty much gave it away while making a $200 profit. The list price for a new one is $16,700. And no, that is not a typo [2]. If you ever have another one you'd like to sell at that price, please contact me :-) For those not in the know, Northfield makes only industrial tools. There's a reason you don't see their stuff at your local home improvement store. Or your local Woodcraft/Rockler. Tannewitz, incidentally also still exits and is still making the GHE. Sadly Oliver, once one of the greats, is now another badge stuck on the same castings coming out of the same foundries as Powermatic, Grizzly, and everybody else. [1] Actually, it might be the nicest miter saw mere money can buy. [2] http://www.northfieldwoodworking.com/pricelist/pricelist.htm http://www.northfieldwoodworking.com/pricelist/pricelist.htm
- RNCTX 6y ago
  It was fantastic! In every way superior to the modern plastic/aluminum variants. American Sawmill Co was the original Unipoint designer. Their models in the 1950s were the holy grail... a single phase, 110v saw that two guys could carry around, but was made of all cast parts so still had the accuracy of the modern Northfield variants. Northfield bought the company in the late 1950s iirc. http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=700 http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=700 Small single phase ones no longer exist, you can only get the big ones. They are still ubiquitous in roof framing shops. No one has come up with a better design than the unipoint in the last 7-8 decades.
  - mauvehaus 6y ago
    Well, I had been thinking about an original round-top DeWalt RAS for when I have shop space of my own, but now I have something else to trawl craigslist for. What a nice machine; thank you for sharing the history.
    - RNCTX 6y ago
      When I saw it on Craigslist I immediately drove out of state to get it. I can tell you that most of these rare birds gravitate to the owmm.org (old woodworking machinery) forum. They even have a surrogate system in place where they help each other buy machines local to another user and then settle up at scheduled meetups. A guy on there bought mine when I eventually sold it. I replaced a Delta RAS with it, that I never got aligned properly. The problem with long arm RASs is they tend to have inaccuracy along the arm itself. The bigger it is the less likely that is, but throwing mass at it is a poor solution. Having a shorter movement footprint is without question the better design. All of the bearings that guide the movement of a unipoint are within inches of each other and fixed in space. The bearings on a long arm RAS have all of that movement distance to get out of alignment. Good luck! There are a few floating around out there.

by RNCTX 6y ago

rkangel 6y ago

This is a route I'd love to go down, but for someone who's newer at this it's hard to know which are the solid immortal ones, and which ones are probably already broken. If anyone can recommend UK equivalents to some of these brands I'd be very grateful!

RNCTX 6y ago
Generally, older is better and if you can put a phase converter in (to use 3 phase motors on residential single phase power) you will find better deals. Reason being, industrial businesses will sell off used machines way cheap when they upgrade or replace. Their stuff is a cut above the home use stuff like what I listed above. 5 horsepower is the upper end of what you can get from a single phase 220v motor. 3 phase motors can well exceed that limit. Otherwise, these machines are really very simple. Most of their mass is cast parts which don’t wear or break. The wear items are just bearings and belts which can be replaced. The only thing to be careful of is bent derive shafts on the motors. Take a dial indicator and measure the run out of the motor shaft on a used machine. If it doesn’t wobble and the motor runs ok you’re fine, buy it and polish it up.

mauvehaus 6y ago

That's a nice fuckin' miter saw[1] for $300! At that price you practically stole it, and you pretty much gave it away while making a $200 profit. The list price for a new one is $16,700. And no, that is not a typo [2]. If you ever have another one you'd like to sell at that price, please contact me :-) For those not in the know, Northfield makes only industrial tools. There's a reason you don't see their stuff at your local home improvement store. Or your local Woodcraft/Rockler. Tannewitz, incidentally also still exits and is still making the GHE. Sadly Oliver, once one of the greats, is now another badge stuck on the same castings coming out of the same foundries as Powermatic, Grizzly, and everybody else. [1] Actually, it might be the nicest miter saw mere money can buy. [2] http://www.northfieldwoodworking.com/pricelist/pricelist.htm http://www.northfieldwoodworking.com/pricelist/pricelist.htm

RNCTX 6y ago
It was fantastic! In every way superior to the modern plastic/aluminum variants. American Sawmill Co was the original Unipoint designer. Their models in the 1950s were the holy grail... a single phase, 110v saw that two guys could carry around, but was made of all cast parts so still had the accuracy of the modern Northfield variants. Northfield bought the company in the late 1950s iirc. http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=700 http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=700 Small single phase ones no longer exist, you can only get the big ones. They are still ubiquitous in roof framing shops. No one has come up with a better design than the unipoint in the last 7-8 decades.
- mauvehaus 6y ago
  Well, I had been thinking about an original round-top DeWalt RAS for when I have shop space of my own, but now I have something else to trawl craigslist for. What a nice machine; thank you for sharing the history.
  - RNCTX 6y ago
    When I saw it on Craigslist I immediately drove out of state to get it. I can tell you that most of these rare birds gravitate to the owmm.org (old woodworking machinery) forum. They even have a surrogate system in place where they help each other buy machines local to another user and then settle up at scheduled meetups. A guy on there bought mine when I eventually sold it. I replaced a Delta RAS with it, that I never got aligned properly. The problem with long arm RASs is they tend to have inaccuracy along the arm itself. The bigger it is the less likely that is, but throwing mass at it is a poor solution. Having a shorter movement footprint is without question the better design. All of the bearings that guide the movement of a unipoint are within inches of each other and fixed in space. The bearings on a long arm RAS have all of that movement distance to get out of alignment. Good luck! There are a few floating around out there.