4 ms·

Yes, trans women are women. Agreed. The challenge is that trans women are women who used to have comparatively vast quantities of testosterone in their bodies

by JPKab 6y ago

Yes, trans women are women. Agreed. The challenge is that trans women are women who used to have comparatively vast quantities of testosterone in their bodies, giving them dramatically higher bone density along with all of the other side effects of testosterone on the body. When they transition fully, the estrogen has a side-effect of preserving the bone density they had previously. Specifically, this gives them a massive advantage in combat sports like MMA. I won't get into the other musculoskeletal aspects that happen. It's a vexing problem, because I don't like the idea of trans women not being treated like women. It sucks to think about that. It also sucks for non-trans women who are getting their skulls fractured in fights. The reality is that fans of non trans female athletes aren't going to accept this. When a tiny percentage of the population is trans, and suddenly trans women start winning at the highest levels of female sports at an insanely disproportionate amount, it clearly indicates that being trans provides a massive advantage in female sports. I haven't found any cases of trans men dominating in male sports. I'm pro trans rights, and also know that my view on this is deeply unpopular in the trans community. I'm not sure what the answer is for this. Sometimes, reality doesn't mesh with our ideals.

toast0 6y ago
I think the answer has to be to find a different way to categorize people into groups for sports competitions. Would it work to just group people by bone density and weight class? Or for MMA, just some sort of scale of ass-kickingness. I would have to be in the can't punch out of a wet paper bag class, which I don't think would get shown on TV. ;)
- zo1 6y ago
  Or you know, have all individuals compete with each other regardless of gender. And if we're not happy with the above suggestion, then we need to define why such a competition would be unfair. Once we can answer that "why" without gender or sex being involved, then everyone will be happy because it'll be as fair as can be had in a diverse society with a range of opinions. That'll include people that are not convinced on the gender/sex debate. The problem now is that we're being polarized on an emotional issue with both sides being demonized. E.g. One side says the other is hateful of trans people, the other side says trans is being pushed on them unfairly, etc. If we rather focus on the facts and amoral concepts (e.g. testosterone count), and drive opinion/policy based on that, there is good chance that we can all coexist without having to force opinions and understanding on both sides where it's largely unwanted. Only then can we come together and have a single, happy view on the topic as a society.

by JPKab 6y ago

toast0 6y ago

I think the answer has to be to find a different way to categorize people into groups for sports competitions. Would it work to just group people by bone density and weight class? Or for MMA, just some sort of scale of ass-kickingness. I would have to be in the can't punch out of a wet paper bag class, which I don't think would get shown on TV. ;)

zo1 6y ago
Or you know, have all individuals compete with each other regardless of gender. And if we're not happy with the above suggestion, then we need to define why such a competition would be unfair. Once we can answer that "why" without gender or sex being involved, then everyone will be happy because it'll be as fair as can be had in a diverse society with a range of opinions. That'll include people that are not convinced on the gender/sex debate. The problem now is that we're being polarized on an emotional issue with both sides being demonized. E.g. One side says the other is hateful of trans people, the other side says trans is being pushed on them unfairly, etc. If we rather focus on the facts and amoral concepts (e.g. testosterone count), and drive opinion/policy based on that, there is good chance that we can all coexist without having to force opinions and understanding on both sides where it's largely unwanted. Only then can we come together and have a single, happy view on the topic as a society.