5 ms·

I wish there were home appliances that could take advantage of this excess supply of electricity. Since 2003 I have been hearing about the concept of the smart

by kd913 6y ago

I wish there were home appliances that could take advantage of this excess supply of electricity. Since 2003 I have been hearing about the concept of the smart grid and yet nothing seems to have particularly materialized. It's 2020, I wish there was a way for me to somehow schedule my washing machines and dishwasher to run easily other the internet at times of negative energy. Heck why isn't this possibility grid controlled yet? Having a large surplus of consumer appliances controlled by the grid could be a greener easier solution than relying on batteries. Alas, I still can't even control my washing machine over the internet. If I could, the appliance is expensive and using proprietary 'dumb' apps.

ISL 6y ago
If the peak is predictable, there's no need for networking. The appliance equivalent of a light-timer (or a little robot that presses "start") is all that is requisite.
- omgwtfbyobbq 6y ago
  If it it's not super predictable, stuff like X10 has been around for a while.
- nelgaard 6y ago
  Both peaks and lows are not that predictable or regular. A storm at night will drive prices down because of wind turbines. That can be predicted days in advance but it requires access to weather forecasts. Certain events such a sport games or TV shows could drive the price up. That could be predicted but requires more than a timer. For a heat pump from air the efficiency depends a lot on the outside temperature. So the best time to run it might not be when electricity is cheapest.
epistasis 6y ago
I think that it's unlikely that exposing individual consumers to such highly variable pricing will induce much change in consumer behavior. It's just so much to think about, with absolutely tiny potential cost benefit for the consumer. However, high prices are unbounded, and I think that it's easier to respond to those signals than to respond to a signal from low selectivity prices. In California (and maybe other places?), companies like OhmConnect are facilitating demand response. A third party bundles together lots of homes' potential drops in demand, then sells that drop in demand back to the utility when they would otherwise use expensive and highly polluting leaker plants. This gets around several market challenges: 1) consumers don't trust utilities and won't believe that they are acting in their best interest. 2) OhmConnect can advertise the environmental benefits to consumers, something that utilities are loathe to do, and 3) it lessens management load on the utilities, who are not used to dealing with data challenges like that, 4) a third party is much more likely to be able to experiment with UX (eg gamificaion) than a staid, highly-regulated utility company.
- dmurray 6y ago
  Even for businesses the focus is usually on cutting demand at times of high prices, not the converse. The contract looks something like "You pay 10% less per kWh, but in return we get to turn off the power to this part of your warehouse for up to one hour per day". It works for places that have, say, big industrial freezers - set the thermostat half a degree lower and the outages aren't a problem.
- adrianN 6y ago
  I think this will get better as more heating is done electrically. A hot water tank, or a house, stores a surprising amount of energy and the heater has a few degrees of wiggle room to intelligently decide when to activate. I think the amounts of energy used for heating are large enough that end-consumers will care about price differences.
  - atupis 6y ago
    Also cooling -> lots of energy -> cool your house 16C instead of 17C.
- markvdb 6y ago
  > I think that it's unlikely that exposing individual consumers to such highly variable pricing will induce much change in consumer behavior. It's just so much to think about, with absolutely tiny potential cost benefit for the consumer. Let me present a counter case: Latvia. Quite a few people choosing a dynamic hourly rate for their electricity with pricing set based on spot market rates. Lots of ordinary people living hand to mouth on tiny wages. They do care about a few euros difference at the end of the month. It makes a real difference to them.
nelgaard 6y ago
I am not looking forward to having my neighbors starting their noisy washing machines at 03:30 am. My dishwasher can control me over the internet. I can give it access to my Wifi. Then it will talk to https://www.home-connect.com/ https://www.home-connect.com/ . I can then install an app so it can tell me to buy more dishwasher tabs for it. Not going to happen. I would like to root my dishwasher.

by kd913 6y ago

ISL 6y ago

If the peak is predictable, there's no need for networking. The appliance equivalent of a light-timer (or a little robot that presses "start") is all that is requisite.

omgwtfbyobbq 6y ago
If it it's not super predictable, stuff like X10 has been around for a while.
nelgaard 6y ago
Both peaks and lows are not that predictable or regular. A storm at night will drive prices down because of wind turbines. That can be predicted days in advance but it requires access to weather forecasts. Certain events such a sport games or TV shows could drive the price up. That could be predicted but requires more than a timer. For a heat pump from air the efficiency depends a lot on the outside temperature. So the best time to run it might not be when electricity is cheapest.

epistasis 6y ago

I think that it's unlikely that exposing individual consumers to such highly variable pricing will induce much change in consumer behavior. It's just so much to think about, with absolutely tiny potential cost benefit for the consumer. However, high prices are unbounded, and I think that it's easier to respond to those signals than to respond to a signal from low selectivity prices. In California (and maybe other places?), companies like OhmConnect are facilitating demand response. A third party bundles together lots of homes' potential drops in demand, then sells that drop in demand back to the utility when they would otherwise use expensive and highly polluting leaker plants. This gets around several market challenges: 1) consumers don't trust utilities and won't believe that they are acting in their best interest. 2) OhmConnect can advertise the environmental benefits to consumers, something that utilities are loathe to do, and 3) it lessens management load on the utilities, who are not used to dealing with data challenges like that, 4) a third party is much more likely to be able to experiment with UX (eg gamificaion) than a staid, highly-regulated utility company.

dmurray 6y ago
Even for businesses the focus is usually on cutting demand at times of high prices, not the converse. The contract looks something like "You pay 10% less per kWh, but in return we get to turn off the power to this part of your warehouse for up to one hour per day". It works for places that have, say, big industrial freezers - set the thermostat half a degree lower and the outages aren't a problem.
adrianN 6y ago
I think this will get better as more heating is done electrically. A hot water tank, or a house, stores a surprising amount of energy and the heater has a few degrees of wiggle room to intelligently decide when to activate. I think the amounts of energy used for heating are large enough that end-consumers will care about price differences.
- atupis 6y ago
  Also cooling -> lots of energy -> cool your house 16C instead of 17C.
markvdb 6y ago
> I think that it's unlikely that exposing individual consumers to such highly variable pricing will induce much change in consumer behavior. It's just so much to think about, with absolutely tiny potential cost benefit for the consumer. Let me present a counter case: Latvia. Quite a few people choosing a dynamic hourly rate for their electricity with pricing set based on spot market rates. Lots of ordinary people living hand to mouth on tiny wages. They do care about a few euros difference at the end of the month. It makes a real difference to them.

nelgaard 6y ago

I am not looking forward to having my neighbors starting their noisy washing machines at 03:30 am. My dishwasher can control me over the internet. I can give it access to my Wifi. Then it will talk to https://www.home-connect.com/ https://www.home-connect.com/ . I can then install an app so it can tell me to buy more dishwasher tabs for it. Not going to happen. I would like to root my dishwasher.