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Guys, guys, it's fine. According to everybody on HN who's so eagerly embraced Zoom and continued to use it even after the security issues, the only thing that m

Guys, guys, it's fine. According to everybody on HN who's so eagerly embraced Zoom and continued to use it even after the security issues, the only thing that matters is that Zoom is the best UX experience for video conferencing. Forget about the human rights, suppression of free speech or the fact that the company is wholly subservient to the CCP (not like anybody could've ever foreseen anything like this ever happening). Just focus on what's important: Zoom is a great product, far better than all the US NSA-ridden ones. So everybody should keep using it, no matter what Zoom or the CCP does.

vikramkr 6y ago
This matters to me and might be enough to get me to switch away (as a former zoom defender). On the other hand, for the average person using Zoom for video calling their families, or for companies forced into WFH that finally set up a Zoom subscription and would have to go through self-imposed bureaucratic hell to swap platforms? I think the usability of the platform and simple convenience far outweighs any desire to switch right now. I wonder how sticky their consumer base actually is.
- Novukus 6y ago
  China stealing IP was a concerning issue in the past 2 decades and it's still an ongoing issue. Yet now we have companies willingly handing over data to a CCP-controlled entity. I'm not sure whether to cry or to laugh.
  - robocat 6y ago
    > China stealing IP Is that relevant to Zoom? In this situation Zoom is competing an open market, and I find it interesting to see multiple world-class apps be innovated in China that compete worldwide. I also find the common over-reaction to being beaten in a “fair“ competition leads to some odd rationalisations from many in the US. As a software developer in New Zealand, I find the IP laws relating to software within the US and the attempts at projecting those laws worldwide to be rent seeking behaviour at a national level. The US had an analogous issue a while back with the British.
    - Novukus 6y ago
      Forget software, think about every other industry where IP is important to protect R&D. Car manufacturers, machinery, trains, planes, etc. And it's not just the US being hit, it's the EU too. Anywhere where significant and important R&D is being done. Of course Zoom is relevant when Western businesses are using Zoom for all their video conferencing. It doesn't matter whether it's an open market. Businesses are being lured in with a good product while not being aware of the fact that the product is essentially run by people in China who are subject to CCP influence and it makes them vulnerable to a completely different threat model. People here simply do not care about the threat that the CCP poses to Western companies. The people here simply have no concept of geopolitical issues. It's incredibly depressing and dangerous. Even now I'm being downvoted again everywhere for pointing this out, because I don't know, they think I'm racist? Overblowing the issue? As if none of them have ever read anything about China or Chinese ambition (re: the CCP) or the CCP's behaviour in the past 20 years.
mnd999 6y ago
The UX is actually not that good. The layout is bad, features are hidden all over the place. It’s not logical or intuitive. It does have a lot of features though, I think that is what people like.
- seppin 6y ago
  Exactly, it's more like a default choice than a "really good one".
robocat 6y ago
I mostly agree with what you are trying to say, but being snarky is against the hn guidelines. Edit: “against” is too strong a word - it isn’t a hard rule but I often see the hn community react negatively to sarcasm and snarkiness even though the content may be worthwhile.
- Novukus 6y ago
  After seeing plenty of discussions on HN where people expressed how they'd rather keep using Zoom despite 1) clear security issues and 2) the development teams living in China, I didn't feel there was any other way to express the issue (and the discrepancy in values). There seems to be a blindness to geopolitical realities in the tech world, and this occurrence is the perfect example.
  - fsflover 6y ago
    Same pattern as with Windows unfortunately...
- dang 6y ago
  It is a hard rule! https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - robocat 6y ago
    I thought the the word “guidelines” usually implied something more flexible. Thank you for the clarification (I certainly appreciate the limited snarkyness and toxic sarcasm within the hn community).
    - pvg 6y ago
      "I got your hard rule right here" would have been a perfectly fine reply, I think, so your initial impression is probably not that far off the mark in practice.
thePunisher 6y ago
No. Zoom should be banned and its CEO ousted. The company should be purged from all Chinese influences.
amachefe 6y ago
If the alternatives were that better why will a chinese activist not use them? Zoom is simply easy to use. I have tried all... Use Teams and SFB at work

vikramkr 6y ago

This matters to me and might be enough to get me to switch away (as a former zoom defender). On the other hand, for the average person using Zoom for video calling their families, or for companies forced into WFH that finally set up a Zoom subscription and would have to go through self-imposed bureaucratic hell to swap platforms? I think the usability of the platform and simple convenience far outweighs any desire to switch right now. I wonder how sticky their consumer base actually is.

Novukus 6y ago
China stealing IP was a concerning issue in the past 2 decades and it's still an ongoing issue. Yet now we have companies willingly handing over data to a CCP-controlled entity. I'm not sure whether to cry or to laugh.
- robocat 6y ago
  > China stealing IP Is that relevant to Zoom? In this situation Zoom is competing an open market, and I find it interesting to see multiple world-class apps be innovated in China that compete worldwide. I also find the common over-reaction to being beaten in a “fair“ competition leads to some odd rationalisations from many in the US. As a software developer in New Zealand, I find the IP laws relating to software within the US and the attempts at projecting those laws worldwide to be rent seeking behaviour at a national level. The US had an analogous issue a while back with the British.
  - Novukus 6y ago
    Forget software, think about every other industry where IP is important to protect R&D. Car manufacturers, machinery, trains, planes, etc. And it's not just the US being hit, it's the EU too. Anywhere where significant and important R&D is being done. Of course Zoom is relevant when Western businesses are using Zoom for all their video conferencing. It doesn't matter whether it's an open market. Businesses are being lured in with a good product while not being aware of the fact that the product is essentially run by people in China who are subject to CCP influence and it makes them vulnerable to a completely different threat model. People here simply do not care about the threat that the CCP poses to Western companies. The people here simply have no concept of geopolitical issues. It's incredibly depressing and dangerous. Even now I'm being downvoted again everywhere for pointing this out, because I don't know, they think I'm racist? Overblowing the issue? As if none of them have ever read anything about China or Chinese ambition (re: the CCP) or the CCP's behaviour in the past 20 years.

mnd999 6y ago

The UX is actually not that good. The layout is bad, features are hidden all over the place. It’s not logical or intuitive. It does have a lot of features though, I think that is what people like.

seppin 6y ago
Exactly, it's more like a default choice than a "really good one".

robocat 6y ago

I mostly agree with what you are trying to say, but being snarky is against the hn guidelines. Edit: “against” is too strong a word - it isn’t a hard rule but I often see the hn community react negatively to sarcasm and snarkiness even though the content may be worthwhile.

Novukus 6y ago
After seeing plenty of discussions on HN where people expressed how they'd rather keep using Zoom despite 1) clear security issues and 2) the development teams living in China, I didn't feel there was any other way to express the issue (and the discrepancy in values). There seems to be a blindness to geopolitical realities in the tech world, and this occurrence is the perfect example.
- fsflover 6y ago
  Same pattern as with Windows unfortunately...
dang 6y ago
It is a hard rule! https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- robocat 6y ago
  I thought the the word “guidelines” usually implied something more flexible. Thank you for the clarification (I certainly appreciate the limited snarkyness and toxic sarcasm within the hn community).
  - pvg 6y ago
    "I got your hard rule right here" would have been a perfectly fine reply, I think, so your initial impression is probably not that far off the mark in practice.

thePunisher 6y ago

No. Zoom should be banned and its CEO ousted. The company should be purged from all Chinese influences.

amachefe 6y ago

If the alternatives were that better why will a chinese activist not use them? Zoom is simply easy to use. I have tried all... Use Teams and SFB at work