5 ms·

It doesn’t matter what Intel shows Apple. Intel can’t meet deadlines which forces Apple to restructure their plans constantly.

by nojito 6y ago

feteru 6y ago
Do you have a link with more info on this?
- dannyw 6y ago
  I have only seen a sentence or two mentioned in Bloomberg, etc. But it’s widely known that Intel haven’t delivered a true generational upgrade since Skylake. We are on 14nm+++++ or something?
  - whynotminot 6y ago
    10nm Icelake in the new 13" MBP is looking like the first solid generational upgrade in recent memory, but yeah, one qualified success in the last 4ish years does not a roadmap make.
- dpacmittal 6y ago
  Haven't they been trying 10nm for years? It was supposed to come out by 2015.
  - benologist 6y ago
    Even when Intel started recycling 14nm why would Apple actually care? Some of their computers have gone years without updates despite newer processors being available, it doesn't seem like an important feature of most of their computers. In 2008 Apple bought PA Semi to design processors for iOS, make processors for Macs is likely something they've been working on since way before Intel was late on 10nm.
fermienrico 6y ago
Just to add color to that - Apple doesn't want external control of their semiconductors. They want to do their own thing starting with the mobile SOCs, then the secure enclave, then the M2 chip, and the GPU, and now mainstream high power processor. What Intel offers is orthogonal.
- Jhsto 6y ago
  And don't forget the modem! Apple recently dumped Intel LTE modems as well.
  - williadc 6y ago
    ... and then acquired the team that made those modems.
- AnthonyMouse 6y ago
  What Intel offers they still have to compete with. It always seems like a good idea to do your own thing when your supplier is stumbling. The problem then is you're on your own. If they find their footing you're in trouble -- either you've blown a huge pile of money developing something which you then don't use because the competition has something better, or you use it anyway and get to relive the final days of Sun Microsystems. And the same thing happens if anybody can beat you. If Intel can't but AMD does, you lose. If AMD can't but Qualcomm does, you lose. Worse, success precipitates failure. If you make an in-house processor which is only a couple of percent faster, that's boring. You spend a lot for a little. If you make one which is more than a couple of percent faster, that's war. Intel can't have that. Google can't have that. Samsung can't have that. Microsoft can't have that. Even if you're bigger than any of them, you're not bigger than all of them. So they double their R&D, combine their resources, whatever it takes, and soon you're Sun Microsystems again.
  - jsnell 6y ago
    When was the last time that a commodity mobile phone soc was even remotely competitive with Apple's latest? 2012? That seems like rather strong evidence against your theory.
thought_alarm 6y ago
Intel is hardly to blame for Apple's bungled MacBook lineup of the last 4+ years.
- rbanffy 6y ago
  That the latest and greatest MacBook Pros use 14nm processors is entirely Intel's fault.
  - thought_alarm 6y ago
    That's not the reason why the 2015-2019 MacBooks are such duds.
    - catalogia 6y ago
      It's one of a few reasons. Macs have worse thermal characteristics than they should; part of that is Apple's fault for making such thin computers with poor ventilation, but part of that is Intel's fault for making such shitty hot chips. Of course there are other matters that can't be laid on Intel, like the keyboard fiasco, but that's beyond the point I think.
    - philistine 6y ago
      The keyboards are. Fair is fair.
      - deathanatos 6y ago
        The display cables fraying "Flexgate"[1], the numerous battery recalls[2][3], that the iPhone and the MBP, as shipped, could not be connected to each other (the MBP came with USB-C to USB-C; the iPhone with USB-A to Lightning; the magic trackpads also suffered this)[4], the kernel panics with USB-C until they finally got patched, that the flagship monitor (admittedly an LG device, but advertised on Apple's website at the time) had issues with … Wi-Fi (just being near it, from improper shielding), that same display also had huge issues with disconnecting peripherals (you would connect to the display and get picture/power, but no peripherals), the crappy noisey RSI-inducing redesign of the already poor keyboard (admittedly subjective except for the objective pain in my wrist, but, e.g., [5]¹), the poor design of the device s.t. any breakage in a component results in the complete waste of the remaining good hardware as nothing is independently replaceable/servicable, routinely receiving a score of 1 out of 10 by iFixit, Apple fighting right to repair[6], … oh, and the keyboards breaking the entire laptop from a single grain of sand, the terrible suspend/resume times, … and I haven't upgraded to Catalina yet. I hear that's gone so well for so many. Yeah, Intel's chips are not the biggest fish in the Apple fish fry. I'm not even an Apple customer, I'm just forced to use them by my employer. (And it feels like most employers nowadays.) [1]: https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/5/18251264/macbook-pro-2018-flexgate-fix-display-cable-2mm-longer https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/5/18251264/macbook-pro-2018-... [2]: https://support.apple.com/15-inch-macbook-pro-battery-recall https://support.apple.com/15-inch-macbook-pro-battery-recall [3]: https://support.apple.com/13inch-macbookpro-battery-replacement https://support.apple.com/13inch-macbookpro-battery-replacem... [4]: https://thenextweb.com/apple/2016/10/27/cant-connect-new-macbook-pro-iphone-without-dongl/ https://thenextweb.com/apple/2016/10/27/cant-connect-new-mac... [5]: https://techcrunch.com/2018/09/01/an-ode-to-apples-awful-mac-keyboard/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/09/01/an-ode-to-apples-awful-mac... [6]: https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2019/7/3/18761691/right-to-repair-computers-phones-car-mechanics-apple https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2019/7/3/18761691/right-to-rep... ¹I now limit my use of Apple keyboards to an absolute minimum.

It doesn’t matter what Intel shows Apple. Intel can’t meet deadlines which forces Apple to restructure their plans constantly.

by nojito 6y ago

It doesn’t matter what Intel shows Apple. Intel can’t meet deadlines which forces Apple to restructure their plans constantly.

feteru 6y ago

Do you have a link with more info on this?

dannyw 6y ago
I have only seen a sentence or two mentioned in Bloomberg, etc. But it’s widely known that Intel haven’t delivered a true generational upgrade since Skylake. We are on 14nm+++++ or something?
- whynotminot 6y ago
  10nm Icelake in the new 13" MBP is looking like the first solid generational upgrade in recent memory, but yeah, one qualified success in the last 4ish years does not a roadmap make.
dpacmittal 6y ago
Haven't they been trying 10nm for years? It was supposed to come out by 2015.
- benologist 6y ago
  Even when Intel started recycling 14nm why would Apple actually care? Some of their computers have gone years without updates despite newer processors being available, it doesn't seem like an important feature of most of their computers. In 2008 Apple bought PA Semi to design processors for iOS, make processors for Macs is likely something they've been working on since way before Intel was late on 10nm.

fermienrico 6y ago

Just to add color to that - Apple doesn't want external control of their semiconductors. They want to do their own thing starting with the mobile SOCs, then the secure enclave, then the M2 chip, and the GPU, and now mainstream high power processor. What Intel offers is orthogonal.

Jhsto 6y ago
And don't forget the modem! Apple recently dumped Intel LTE modems as well.
- williadc 6y ago
  ... and then acquired the team that made those modems.
AnthonyMouse 6y ago
What Intel offers they still have to compete with. It always seems like a good idea to do your own thing when your supplier is stumbling. The problem then is you're on your own. If they find their footing you're in trouble -- either you've blown a huge pile of money developing something which you then don't use because the competition has something better, or you use it anyway and get to relive the final days of Sun Microsystems. And the same thing happens if anybody can beat you. If Intel can't but AMD does, you lose. If AMD can't but Qualcomm does, you lose. Worse, success precipitates failure. If you make an in-house processor which is only a couple of percent faster, that's boring. You spend a lot for a little. If you make one which is more than a couple of percent faster, that's war. Intel can't have that. Google can't have that. Samsung can't have that. Microsoft can't have that. Even if you're bigger than any of them, you're not bigger than all of them. So they double their R&D, combine their resources, whatever it takes, and soon you're Sun Microsystems again.
- jsnell 6y ago
  When was the last time that a commodity mobile phone soc was even remotely competitive with Apple's latest? 2012? That seems like rather strong evidence against your theory.

thought_alarm 6y ago

Intel is hardly to blame for Apple's bungled MacBook lineup of the last 4+ years.

rbanffy 6y ago
That the latest and greatest MacBook Pros use 14nm processors is entirely Intel's fault.
- thought_alarm 6y ago
  That's not the reason why the 2015-2019 MacBooks are such duds.
  - catalogia 6y ago
    It's one of a few reasons. Macs have worse thermal characteristics than they should; part of that is Apple's fault for making such thin computers with poor ventilation, but part of that is Intel's fault for making such shitty hot chips. Of course there are other matters that can't be laid on Intel, like the keyboard fiasco, but that's beyond the point I think.
  - philistine 6y ago
    The keyboards are. Fair is fair.
    - deathanatos 6y ago
      The display cables fraying "Flexgate"[1], the numerous battery recalls[2][3], that the iPhone and the MBP, as shipped, could not be connected to each other (the MBP came with USB-C to USB-C; the iPhone with USB-A to Lightning; the magic trackpads also suffered this)[4], the kernel panics with USB-C until they finally got patched, that the flagship monitor (admittedly an LG device, but advertised on Apple's website at the time) had issues with … Wi-Fi (just being near it, from improper shielding), that same display also had huge issues with disconnecting peripherals (you would connect to the display and get picture/power, but no peripherals), the crappy noisey RSI-inducing redesign of the already poor keyboard (admittedly subjective except for the objective pain in my wrist, but, e.g., [5]¹), the poor design of the device s.t. any breakage in a component results in the complete waste of the remaining good hardware as nothing is independently replaceable/servicable, routinely receiving a score of 1 out of 10 by iFixit, Apple fighting right to repair[6], … oh, and the keyboards breaking the entire laptop from a single grain of sand, the terrible suspend/resume times, … and I haven't upgraded to Catalina yet. I hear that's gone so well for so many. Yeah, Intel's chips are not the biggest fish in the Apple fish fry. I'm not even an Apple customer, I'm just forced to use them by my employer. (And it feels like most employers nowadays.) [1]: https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/5/18251264/macbook-pro-2018-flexgate-fix-display-cable-2mm-longer https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/5/18251264/macbook-pro-2018-... [2]: https://support.apple.com/15-inch-macbook-pro-battery-recall https://support.apple.com/15-inch-macbook-pro-battery-recall [3]: https://support.apple.com/13inch-macbookpro-battery-replacement https://support.apple.com/13inch-macbookpro-battery-replacem... [4]: https://thenextweb.com/apple/2016/10/27/cant-connect-new-macbook-pro-iphone-without-dongl/ https://thenextweb.com/apple/2016/10/27/cant-connect-new-mac... [5]: https://techcrunch.com/2018/09/01/an-ode-to-apples-awful-mac-keyboard/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/09/01/an-ode-to-apples-awful-mac... [6]: https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2019/7/3/18761691/right-to-repair-computers-phones-car-mechanics-apple https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2019/7/3/18761691/right-to-rep... ¹I now limit my use of Apple keyboards to an absolute minimum.