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> is quite possible that someone you manage doesn't know where they stand with you Higher level performers tend to disproportionately believe then need to impr

> is quite possible that someone you manage doesn't know where they stand with you Higher level performers tend to disproportionately believe then need to improve so they tend to take group jokes or threats of termination much more seriously than underperformers. Be very very careful making groups statements and jokes about performance and firings. It’s a fast track to losing high performers who leave because they start to believe they are not wanted and not doing a good job.

TheBlight 6y ago
Do you have a citation for this phenomenon you claim wrt higher level performers?
- throwaway3563 6y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_syndrome "... five subgroups this syndrome often falls into. - The perfectionist - The superwoman/man - The natural genius - The soloist - The expert"
  - P-ala-din 6y ago
    "While early research focused on the prevalence among high-achieving women, impostor syndrome has been recognized to affect both men and women equally." "The researchers concluded that the women who participated in this study experienced impostor phenomenon more so than the men who participated." am I misparsing this sentence? how can both be true?
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      The first is characterizing a broad collection of research findings since the early identification of the phenomenon, the other the particular survey.
      - P-ala-din 6y ago
        so which one is wrong?
        dragonwriter 6y ago
        Neither is necessarily wrong, as they have a different universe of analysis.
        P-ala-din 6y ago
        the way I parsed the question made it seem that they are incompatible. hence why I asked. it's my bad because I didn't explain myself. I understood the first sentence to be saying that the proportion of men experiencing "imposter's syndrome" is the equal to the proportion of woman experiencing it. I understood The second sentence to say that a higher proportion of women experience it. To my understanding, it's not possible for these two statements to be true at the same time. So one must be wrong.
        xapata 6y ago
        "Not all foo are bar." "This foo is bar." Both statements can be true simultaneously.
        P-ala-din 6y ago
        Of course, that's true but I can't map that to the statements at hand. I understood it to be: P(W) == P(M) and P(W) > P(M)
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
        torstenvl 6y ago
        "P(W) == P(M)" is not supported by the statement. More like "P(W), but also P(M)"
        6y ago
    - bradjohnson 6y ago
      I may be wrong because it is worded unclearly, but I think the first is referring to the magnitude by which men and women are affected, i.e. those that are affected, be they men or women, experience the same impact to their self esteem/worth. The second is referring to the fact that women are more frequently affected by it.
      - P-ala-din 6y ago
        That makes sense, thanks. I was misled by the use of "prevalence" in the first part of the sentence.
        mattkrause 6y ago
        In this context, prevalence means something like "the proportion of affected people in some group." Men and women could be equally likely to develop some form of imposter syndrome (thus, equal prevalence), but the women could be more severely affected (scores of, say, 5 vs. 3 on some kind of test or questionnaire).
        P-ala-din 6y ago
        yeah, the definition of prevalence is clear to me. but it's the other way around. Men and women are affected with the same severity but women are more likely to develop it. ( or at least that's what I understood from bradjohnson's comment).
        mattkrause 6y ago
        No, I don't think that's a correct interpretation: if women are more likely to develop it, then the prevalence isn't equal. Affect and prevalence just focus on rates, not severity. I can only see two ways to make both statements consistent: - Men and women are both likely to have an general 'diagnosis' of imposter syndrome, but women experience more 'acute attacks' of it per unit time. Half of of men and women feel like imposters during a year, but the affected women feel that way twice a week, while the affected men feel it once/week. - Women experience it more severely than men: a male colonel feels like a lt. colonel, but a female colonel feels like a major) Could be some combination of the two...or the writing is just a mess!
  - mprovost 6y ago
    See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
- austincheney 6y ago
  One qualifying segment is the rarer over performing subset of Dunning-Kruger personalities. That is people who accurately measure their own performance but do not accurately measure their peers and thus improperly devalue themselves in comparison. To compensate for that improper devaluation these people will attempt to over perform in an effort to feel comparable. Under that condition it is anticipated these people will take criticism and risks with a greater degree of personal sensitivity.
- pininja 6y ago
  This discussion revolves around advice, which set my expectations that these are claims based on experience instead of something that can be cited. If you don’t agree because you’ve had a contradicting experience, that could be a valuable addition to the discussion. It’s also fair to not adopt the advice if you want a study and one cannot be provided. I’ve experienced the feeling the grandparent post shared.
disambiguation 6y ago
i think you have the causality reversed people who take the risks seriously will try harder, thus become higher performers

TheBlight 6y ago

Do you have a citation for this phenomenon you claim wrt higher level performers?

throwaway3563 6y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_syndrome "... five subgroups this syndrome often falls into. - The perfectionist - The superwoman/man - The natural genius - The soloist - The expert"
- P-ala-din 6y ago
  "While early research focused on the prevalence among high-achieving women, impostor syndrome has been recognized to affect both men and women equally." "The researchers concluded that the women who participated in this study experienced impostor phenomenon more so than the men who participated." am I misparsing this sentence? how can both be true?
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    The first is characterizing a broad collection of research findings since the early identification of the phenomenon, the other the particular survey.
    - P-ala-din 6y ago
      so which one is wrong?
      - dragonwriter 6y ago
        Neither is necessarily wrong, as they have a different universe of analysis.
        P-ala-din 6y ago
        the way I parsed the question made it seem that they are incompatible. hence why I asked. it's my bad because I didn't explain myself. I understood the first sentence to be saying that the proportion of men experiencing "imposter's syndrome" is the equal to the proportion of woman experiencing it. I understood The second sentence to say that a higher proportion of women experience it. To my understanding, it's not possible for these two statements to be true at the same time. So one must be wrong.
      - xapata 6y ago
        "Not all foo are bar." "This foo is bar." Both statements can be true simultaneously.
        P-ala-din 6y ago
        Of course, that's true but I can't map that to the statements at hand. I understood it to be: P(W) == P(M) and P(W) > P(M)
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
        torstenvl 6y ago
        "P(W) == P(M)" is not supported by the statement. More like "P(W), but also P(M)"
        6y ago
  - bradjohnson 6y ago
    I may be wrong because it is worded unclearly, but I think the first is referring to the magnitude by which men and women are affected, i.e. those that are affected, be they men or women, experience the same impact to their self esteem/worth. The second is referring to the fact that women are more frequently affected by it.
    - P-ala-din 6y ago
      That makes sense, thanks. I was misled by the use of "prevalence" in the first part of the sentence.
      - mattkrause 6y ago
        In this context, prevalence means something like "the proportion of affected people in some group." Men and women could be equally likely to develop some form of imposter syndrome (thus, equal prevalence), but the women could be more severely affected (scores of, say, 5 vs. 3 on some kind of test or questionnaire).
        P-ala-din 6y ago
        yeah, the definition of prevalence is clear to me. but it's the other way around. Men and women are affected with the same severity but women are more likely to develop it. ( or at least that's what I understood from bradjohnson's comment).
        mattkrause 6y ago
        No, I don't think that's a correct interpretation: if women are more likely to develop it, then the prevalence isn't equal. Affect and prevalence just focus on rates, not severity. I can only see two ways to make both statements consistent: - Men and women are both likely to have an general 'diagnosis' of imposter syndrome, but women experience more 'acute attacks' of it per unit time. Half of of men and women feel like imposters during a year, but the affected women feel that way twice a week, while the affected men feel it once/week. - Women experience it more severely than men: a male colonel feels like a lt. colonel, but a female colonel feels like a major) Could be some combination of the two...or the writing is just a mess!
- mprovost 6y ago
  See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
austincheney 6y ago
One qualifying segment is the rarer over performing subset of Dunning-Kruger personalities. That is people who accurately measure their own performance but do not accurately measure their peers and thus improperly devalue themselves in comparison. To compensate for that improper devaluation these people will attempt to over perform in an effort to feel comparable. Under that condition it is anticipated these people will take criticism and risks with a greater degree of personal sensitivity.
pininja 6y ago
This discussion revolves around advice, which set my expectations that these are claims based on experience instead of something that can be cited. If you don’t agree because you’ve had a contradicting experience, that could be a valuable addition to the discussion. It’s also fair to not adopt the advice if you want a study and one cannot be provided. I’ve experienced the feeling the grandparent post shared.

disambiguation 6y ago

i think you have the causality reversed people who take the risks seriously will try harder, thus become higher performers