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I feel so helpless about this, I try to limit my own impact on the environment (not flying, not owning a car) but I know that it's basically useless to solve th

I feel so helpless about this, I try to limit my own impact on the environment (not flying, not owning a car) but I know that it's basically useless to solve this bottom up. The problem is that the people who are most able to actually tackle this problem earn their money by causing it, and will be the least affected personally. The fact that Bezos would rather spend all his money on rockets instead of mitigating the climate catastrophe is super depressing.

troughway 6y ago
Every time a doom thread like this comes up, and I read a comment from someone who has taken the initiative to limit their own damage, I think back to Idiocracy and the beginning montage of that film with the educated, professional couple. I can't help but feel sorry for the couple because in the end, they are the ones who tried the hardest to "make things right" and have suffered the most. Now I'm reading this comment and I'm wondering - what is the lesson here, really?
- polytely 6y ago
  I don't know man, just kinda depression posting from my tiny room. I want to do something about it, because I haven't lost all hope yet, but I don't see a clear way how I personally could have any real impact. I wish I had enough cash to quit my job for a while and figure where I could make a difference, but I'm kinda barely hanging on as it is. It just bums me out that so much time and effort in the tech-sphere is spent on improving the efficiency of our destruction of the planet, and that the people who got rich of this destruction seem very content sitting on their pile of cash.
- LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
  "Dumm fickt gut, und hat immer die größte Brut!" Dumb fucks good, always largest breed.
- hckr_news 6y ago
  My issue with that opening scene is that it seems to illustrate wealthier, higher class people as the ones who can solve all the problems in society because they have boatloads of money and are educated to the nth degree. In comparison to the hick family with 10 kids they also featured. What difference does it make if poor people are having more kids and the rich stave off having kids because of lack of time? I might be missing the point of the satire the movie is trying to portray but wouldn’t it make sense to put those poor 10 kids through public schools and universities in hopes they can get jobs in industry or research to eventually help humanity and solve problems. It’s an issue of equal opportunity access to me. And I’m not too sure if the movie is poking fun at the idea of expecting wealthy people and their offspring to solve the world’s problem, or if that is one of the movie’s actual message.
melling 6y ago
Jeff Bezos can’t solve the problem either. He is investing in electric vans, etc for Amazon, though. Kickstarting commercial EV’s is a good start. “I feel so helpless about this, I try to limit my own impact on the environment (not flying, not owning a car) but I know that it's basically useless to solve this bottom up.” I’m glad you are self aware about the problem. We’re going spend the next decade discussing climate change on HN, as we did the past decade. A lot more people need to realize that wasting our time shaming people for flying, etc is pointless. Climate change is a slow train wreck that won’t be avoided. We watched Coronavirus hit us quickly and people still denied it. Miami slowly flooding over decades is inevitable. Remember to upvote every HN climate change article. A decade from now we can all look back at how little we accomplished. We’re beginning another lost decade.
- polytely 6y ago
  Yeah I get that Bezos cannot personally rescue us, but I find the lack of imagination absolutely bonkers. Like Amazon only works in a not-collapsed world, yet the measures that he does take are only inside Amazon. Why not spend a couple of billions of basic research in climate change mitigation. The dude could fund the Xerox-Parc of climate action in perpetuity and not notice it. And of course you can see Bezos as the stand-in for the 1%. I just feel that the people who are the most able to actually do something, seem completely fine with the collapse because they got theirs and their children will live happily in their New Zealand bunkers while the rest the world kind of fizzles out.
  - rayiner 6y ago
    The experts are saying that civilization will not collapse. Right now, the expert estimates for a "business as usual" scenario are about a 10-15% loss of GDP. I have to imagine people like Bezos are living in that universe, not in the fringes where climate change results in "collapse."
    - dantheman 6y ago
      and that's a 10-15% loss of GDP at that time if there wasn't climate change. It's important to remember, since growth is compounding big hits to GDP now for radical solutions will cause far higher losses then.
vsareto 6y ago
I think we'll see some serious innovation once we take a few steps into the catastrophe. We probably need to find new farming lands further north and stockpile farming equipment and materials (and remove the DRM bullshit like with John Deere).
SuoDuanDao 6y ago
I think there is a lot of benefit to the view that civilizations do not last forever any more than people live forever. There's so much less recrimination that way, sure we might have squeezed out an extra century if we'd been better, but the important thing is recognizing where we are and doing what's appropriate to that era. And call me crazy, but from that perspective I rather like living in the late autumn of a civilization, there's just so much to do. So much to harvest, so much to put away, in storage and in memory. It's a crazy triage of artifacts so overwhelming in number and splendor that I feel like weeping with gratitude.
- jshaqaw 6y ago
  I might feel this way if I was childless. As a parent, the idea of a collapsing civilization is catastrophically depressing.
  - SuoDuanDao 6y ago
    That is completely fair. The stakes are higher to you in a way I can't viscerally comprehend. But I would also say, parents throughout history have faced hard winters and still found moments of joy.
rapnie 6y ago
> but I know that it's basically useless to solve this bottom up. Doing the right thing can feel incredibly pointless, but it is not useless at all. It's like voting, also not useless. Many tiny ants build a great hill if only they keep at it.
sershe 6y ago
As mentioned in other comments this is not a mainstream position, but suppose it were true. What do you do? Think about how one behaves as a nerd in high school. There are a bunch of people running around doing stupid crap: their motivations are strange, plus many are incompetent and some malicious. What do you do, "do your part"? Nah, you just ignore it, adapt when you have to, and do your own thing as if nothing was happening.

troughway 6y ago

Every time a doom thread like this comes up, and I read a comment from someone who has taken the initiative to limit their own damage, I think back to Idiocracy and the beginning montage of that film with the educated, professional couple. I can't help but feel sorry for the couple because in the end, they are the ones who tried the hardest to "make things right" and have suffered the most. Now I'm reading this comment and I'm wondering - what is the lesson here, really?

polytely 6y ago
I don't know man, just kinda depression posting from my tiny room. I want to do something about it, because I haven't lost all hope yet, but I don't see a clear way how I personally could have any real impact. I wish I had enough cash to quit my job for a while and figure where I could make a difference, but I'm kinda barely hanging on as it is. It just bums me out that so much time and effort in the tech-sphere is spent on improving the efficiency of our destruction of the planet, and that the people who got rich of this destruction seem very content sitting on their pile of cash.
LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
"Dumm fickt gut, und hat immer die größte Brut!" Dumb fucks good, always largest breed.
hckr_news 6y ago
My issue with that opening scene is that it seems to illustrate wealthier, higher class people as the ones who can solve all the problems in society because they have boatloads of money and are educated to the nth degree. In comparison to the hick family with 10 kids they also featured. What difference does it make if poor people are having more kids and the rich stave off having kids because of lack of time? I might be missing the point of the satire the movie is trying to portray but wouldn’t it make sense to put those poor 10 kids through public schools and universities in hopes they can get jobs in industry or research to eventually help humanity and solve problems. It’s an issue of equal opportunity access to me. And I’m not too sure if the movie is poking fun at the idea of expecting wealthy people and their offspring to solve the world’s problem, or if that is one of the movie’s actual message.

melling 6y ago

Jeff Bezos can’t solve the problem either. He is investing in electric vans, etc for Amazon, though. Kickstarting commercial EV’s is a good start. “I feel so helpless about this, I try to limit my own impact on the environment (not flying, not owning a car) but I know that it's basically useless to solve this bottom up.” I’m glad you are self aware about the problem. We’re going spend the next decade discussing climate change on HN, as we did the past decade. A lot more people need to realize that wasting our time shaming people for flying, etc is pointless. Climate change is a slow train wreck that won’t be avoided. We watched Coronavirus hit us quickly and people still denied it. Miami slowly flooding over decades is inevitable. Remember to upvote every HN climate change article. A decade from now we can all look back at how little we accomplished. We’re beginning another lost decade.

polytely 6y ago
Yeah I get that Bezos cannot personally rescue us, but I find the lack of imagination absolutely bonkers. Like Amazon only works in a not-collapsed world, yet the measures that he does take are only inside Amazon. Why not spend a couple of billions of basic research in climate change mitigation. The dude could fund the Xerox-Parc of climate action in perpetuity and not notice it. And of course you can see Bezos as the stand-in for the 1%. I just feel that the people who are the most able to actually do something, seem completely fine with the collapse because they got theirs and their children will live happily in their New Zealand bunkers while the rest the world kind of fizzles out.
- rayiner 6y ago
  The experts are saying that civilization will not collapse. Right now, the expert estimates for a "business as usual" scenario are about a 10-15% loss of GDP. I have to imagine people like Bezos are living in that universe, not in the fringes where climate change results in "collapse."
  - dantheman 6y ago
    and that's a 10-15% loss of GDP at that time if there wasn't climate change. It's important to remember, since growth is compounding big hits to GDP now for radical solutions will cause far higher losses then.

vsareto 6y ago

I think we'll see some serious innovation once we take a few steps into the catastrophe. We probably need to find new farming lands further north and stockpile farming equipment and materials (and remove the DRM bullshit like with John Deere).

SuoDuanDao 6y ago

I think there is a lot of benefit to the view that civilizations do not last forever any more than people live forever. There's so much less recrimination that way, sure we might have squeezed out an extra century if we'd been better, but the important thing is recognizing where we are and doing what's appropriate to that era. And call me crazy, but from that perspective I rather like living in the late autumn of a civilization, there's just so much to do. So much to harvest, so much to put away, in storage and in memory. It's a crazy triage of artifacts so overwhelming in number and splendor that I feel like weeping with gratitude.

jshaqaw 6y ago
I might feel this way if I was childless. As a parent, the idea of a collapsing civilization is catastrophically depressing.
- SuoDuanDao 6y ago
  That is completely fair. The stakes are higher to you in a way I can't viscerally comprehend. But I would also say, parents throughout history have faced hard winters and still found moments of joy.

rapnie 6y ago

> but I know that it's basically useless to solve this bottom up. Doing the right thing can feel incredibly pointless, but it is not useless at all. It's like voting, also not useless. Many tiny ants build a great hill if only they keep at it.

sershe 6y ago

As mentioned in other comments this is not a mainstream position, but suppose it were true. What do you do? Think about how one behaves as a nerd in high school. There are a bunch of people running around doing stupid crap: their motivations are strange, plus many are incompetent and some malicious. What do you do, "do your part"? Nah, you just ignore it, adapt when you have to, and do your own thing as if nothing was happening.