4 ms·

Why "should" we do anything in the absence of free will. What will happen is what will happen. Everything is inevitable, including the punch to the face.

jbay808 6y ago
Why do you feel like a novel has suspense, when the ending is sitting right there in front of you, already written, in the pages that you haven't read yet? Determinism or not, you have to wait to find out what tomorrow will bring. And tomorrow still depends on what you do today -- even if what you do today is fully determined by yesterday. If losing the illusion of free will means you'll sit there on your sofa letting time pass, because why make any effort if the future is already written, then you're just misunderstanding determinism. I believe the future is already written, but I'm still going to work as hard as I can to make sure that it turns out to be as good a future as possible. Once you've internalized a deterministic worldview, this is not a contradiction. (If you're familiar with Newcomb's problem, I'd choose one box). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcomb%27s_paradox https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcomb%27s_paradox
- CMCDragonkai 6y ago
  Any book has suspense for myself because it might have utility and lessons that enrich my understanding of life. Not simply because it is not-yet-known to myself. This analogy doesn't make sense to me. Whether you think it is an illusion or not is irrelevant. A deterministic world means you were determined to believe it is an illusion. Just as others may be determined to believe that it isn't an illusion. Thus it is impossible for me to sit on a couch and do nothing, because I would be determined to believe in free will and not sit on a couch and do nothing. On a personal note, I often feel that things that don't have free will don't deserve moral blame, but this also means they don't deserve anything at all. No punishment, no reward. One can judge such things in the same way one might judge a rock.
GoblinSlayer 6y ago
Causality there goes in the opposite direction. Fatalism is inspired by existential crisis, not by practical considerations. And trading practicality for existential crisis is unwise: you only lose everything and don't obtain anything.

jbay808 6y ago

Why do you feel like a novel has suspense, when the ending is sitting right there in front of you, already written, in the pages that you haven't read yet? Determinism or not, you have to wait to find out what tomorrow will bring. And tomorrow still depends on what you do today -- even if what you do today is fully determined by yesterday. If losing the illusion of free will means you'll sit there on your sofa letting time pass, because why make any effort if the future is already written, then you're just misunderstanding determinism. I believe the future is already written, but I'm still going to work as hard as I can to make sure that it turns out to be as good a future as possible. Once you've internalized a deterministic worldview, this is not a contradiction. (If you're familiar with Newcomb's problem, I'd choose one box). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcomb%27s_paradox https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcomb%27s_paradox

CMCDragonkai 6y ago
Any book has suspense for myself because it might have utility and lessons that enrich my understanding of life. Not simply because it is not-yet-known to myself. This analogy doesn't make sense to me. Whether you think it is an illusion or not is irrelevant. A deterministic world means you were determined to believe it is an illusion. Just as others may be determined to believe that it isn't an illusion. Thus it is impossible for me to sit on a couch and do nothing, because I would be determined to believe in free will and not sit on a couch and do nothing. On a personal note, I often feel that things that don't have free will don't deserve moral blame, but this also means they don't deserve anything at all. No punishment, no reward. One can judge such things in the same way one might judge a rock.

GoblinSlayer 6y ago

Causality there goes in the opposite direction. Fatalism is inspired by existential crisis, not by practical considerations. And trading practicality for existential crisis is unwise: you only lose everything and don't obtain anything.