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The author has a couple arguments, some stronger than others. The argument that changing constraints dramatically change system function, and thus enable top d
by yters 6y ago
The author has a couple arguments, some stronger than others.
The argument that changing constraints dramatically change system function, and thus enable top down control, is good. It is why we can program computers without being quantum physicists. Additionally, the point that if determinism is true then all texts were encoded in the initial conditions is also good. And finally, his point that determinism undermines the rationality of morality is also good. The book "Life at the Bottom" maked this point vividly, where criminals seem to be unanimous that their actions are out of their control.
Where his argument falls apart is explaining the source of top down causation. The author makes the supervenience fallacy, conclusively demonstrated by Jaegwon Kim. There is no logical possibility of top down causation within materialism.
- jbay808 6y agoThanks for the summary, this makes it easier to address his other points. You already see the issue with constraints -- which is why our reality is a bottom-up one, but with the appearance of top-down rules. The point that if determinism is true all texts are encoded, also applies to any other organized information, e.g. human DNA. If books can only be thought of as the product of human free will, and not just natural law, then equally, DNA must be credited to something's free will. But what? Does evolution have free will? No, I think they're both the outcomes of natural processes. We can still build legal systems of copyright on top of that though, and claim credit for those works. (As for where the data comes from if not the Schrodinger equation -- that problem also has a simple solution, which is that we're on the leaf of a widely branching tree, and the data is seeded by the index of our branching history).
- yters 6y agoIf books can only be created by human free will, and evolution does not have free will, then that implies DNA must have been generated by something like a human. Aliens?
- jbay808 6y agoThat's where the original article author's argument would logically lead, yes. And of course those aliens might have some DNA equivalent... So I think it's clear that the author's argument here is pretty weak.
- yters 6y agocould maybe bootstrap, each subsequent race gets more complex dna and capability
- naasking 6y ago> There is no logical possibility of top down causation within materialism. Depends on specifically what you mean by top down causation: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3262299/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3262299/