5 ms·

FWIW, green used to do something completely different than it does today (make a window full-screen)— it was the (somewhat poorly named) “zoom” button and, in a

FWIW, green used to do something completely different than it does today (make a window full-screen)— it was the (somewhat poorly named) “zoom” button and, in a properly-functioning Mac app, resized the window to fit its contents. Its functionality gradually shifted towards a more Windows-like “maximize” over the years as more cross-platform apps moved onto the platform and apps that don’t have an explicit content size (like web browsers) proliferated, but the original implementation didn’t really have the strong connection to the traffic light metaphor you describe. It was more of a “red closes the window, yellow moves it out of the way, and green resizes it randomly in a way that may or may not actually be what you want”. (I don’t recall whether or not this made it out of beta or not, but early OSX builds at least also had a persistent “ focus mode” button in window title bars— a button off by itself at the far right would shift into a single-window mode and hide everything else.)

Wowfunhappy 6y ago
Huh, even many of Apple's own apps seemed to treat Zoom as a maximize button as of Leopard. But for those that did not, since the window almost always got larger the traffic light metaphor makes sense to me. > (I don’t recall whether or not this made it out of beta or not, but early OSX builds at least also had a persistent “ focus mode” button in window title bars— a button off by itself at the far right would shift into a single-window mode and hide everything else.) You're not thinking of the fullscreen button in 10.7–10.9, are you? It used to be in the top right corner as you described: https://i.ibb.co/KGVnyrh/Screen-Shot-2020-06-10-at-12-17-12-AM.png https://i.ibb.co/KGVnyrh/Screen-Shot-2020-06-10-at-12-17-12-... I downgraded my main machine to Mavericks a few months ago (because I wanted to), and while I generally love it, I was annoyed enough with the zoom button that I actually wrote a SIMBL plugin to make it behave like modern releases: https://github.com/Wowfunhappy/GreenFullscreen https://github.com/Wowfunhappy/GreenFullscreen
- afandian 6y ago
  Fullscreen has been cumbersome on MacOS since forever. There was an argument that the Windows 95 style full screen somehow wasn't desirable. Then they did implement it in OS X in a way that makes app switching difficult. I use Spectacle to resize windows to fill the screen and it does a good job. But recently switching to linux and XFCE (after having a personal macs for over 20 years), I'm reminded that being able to hit F11 and have a full screen window was useful all along. Having a window use the full screen, but not becoming screen modal seems far less heavy handed.
  - whywhywhywhy 6y ago
    > There was an argument that the Windows 95 style full screen somehow wasn't desirable Still believe this is true when I have to sit behind someone swiping back and forth through a linear line of fullscreen windows, watching them go all the way one way and ooops its not there now we have to go all the way back. I get that the slick UI makes you feel like you're in Minority Report but really it just makes a single click operation into a 3-8 swipe operation.
    - afandian 6y ago
      I don't follow the "slick UI comment". I'm arguing for the most barebones UI. Who's swiping? And Mac OS and XFCE have both app and window switching. I'm talking about being able to have a fullscreen app that I can switch back and forth with cmd-tab or cmd-tilde. I dont there's dispute that its desirable to be able to use all the screen space sometimes. The issue is that last time I checked Mac OS prevents you from quickly cmd-tabbing to and from full screen windows, and had compulsory full screen transition animations that can't be disabled.
    - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
      I actually love modern macOS's fullscreen. On small laptops like my 11" Macbook Air, fullscreen is essential to having a comfortable amount of screen real-estate. Seeing two applications at a time isn't usually practical, unless I'm just copying items between Finder windows or some such. If I'm moving between two or three applications, I know how many swipes I need to get from one to the other, and the movement is quite efficient. If I'm working with more than three, I can swipe up and pick the app I want directly in Exposé. On desktops I use fullscreen much less often, but it's useful for psychological reasons when I need to focus on a single task.
      - adrianmsmith 6y ago
        Don't you find that the windows/screens sometimes reorder themselves? So you have the muscle memory of the number of swipes, but 10% of the time you go to a screen and it's been reordered. There is an option in Preferences to do less reordering but it still does some unfortunately, you can't turn it off completely.

Wowfunhappy 6y ago

Huh, even many of Apple's own apps seemed to treat Zoom as a maximize button as of Leopard. But for those that did not, since the window almost always got larger the traffic light metaphor makes sense to me. > (I don’t recall whether or not this made it out of beta or not, but early OSX builds at least also had a persistent “ focus mode” button in window title bars— a button off by itself at the far right would shift into a single-window mode and hide everything else.) You're not thinking of the fullscreen button in 10.7–10.9, are you? It used to be in the top right corner as you described: https://i.ibb.co/KGVnyrh/Screen-Shot-2020-06-10-at-12-17-12-AM.png https://i.ibb.co/KGVnyrh/Screen-Shot-2020-06-10-at-12-17-12-... I downgraded my main machine to Mavericks a few months ago (because I wanted to), and while I generally love it, I was annoyed enough with the zoom button that I actually wrote a SIMBL plugin to make it behave like modern releases: https://github.com/Wowfunhappy/GreenFullscreen https://github.com/Wowfunhappy/GreenFullscreen

afandian 6y ago
Fullscreen has been cumbersome on MacOS since forever. There was an argument that the Windows 95 style full screen somehow wasn't desirable. Then they did implement it in OS X in a way that makes app switching difficult. I use Spectacle to resize windows to fill the screen and it does a good job. But recently switching to linux and XFCE (after having a personal macs for over 20 years), I'm reminded that being able to hit F11 and have a full screen window was useful all along. Having a window use the full screen, but not becoming screen modal seems far less heavy handed.
- whywhywhywhy 6y ago
  > There was an argument that the Windows 95 style full screen somehow wasn't desirable Still believe this is true when I have to sit behind someone swiping back and forth through a linear line of fullscreen windows, watching them go all the way one way and ooops its not there now we have to go all the way back. I get that the slick UI makes you feel like you're in Minority Report but really it just makes a single click operation into a 3-8 swipe operation.
  - afandian 6y ago
    I don't follow the "slick UI comment". I'm arguing for the most barebones UI. Who's swiping? And Mac OS and XFCE have both app and window switching. I'm talking about being able to have a fullscreen app that I can switch back and forth with cmd-tab or cmd-tilde. I dont there's dispute that its desirable to be able to use all the screen space sometimes. The issue is that last time I checked Mac OS prevents you from quickly cmd-tabbing to and from full screen windows, and had compulsory full screen transition animations that can't be disabled.
  - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
    I actually love modern macOS's fullscreen. On small laptops like my 11" Macbook Air, fullscreen is essential to having a comfortable amount of screen real-estate. Seeing two applications at a time isn't usually practical, unless I'm just copying items between Finder windows or some such. If I'm moving between two or three applications, I know how many swipes I need to get from one to the other, and the movement is quite efficient. If I'm working with more than three, I can swipe up and pick the app I want directly in Exposé. On desktops I use fullscreen much less often, but it's useful for psychological reasons when I need to focus on a single task.
    - adrianmsmith 6y ago
      Don't you find that the windows/screens sometimes reorder themselves? So you have the muscle memory of the number of swipes, but 10% of the time you go to a screen and it's been reordered. There is an option in Preferences to do less reordering but it still does some unfortunately, you can't turn it off completely.