4 ms·

Java 7 required payment for support for four years before the license change [1]: > The price is $25 per month per processor for servers and cloud instances, w

by pron 6y ago

Java 7 required payment for support for four years before the license change [1]: > The price is $25 per month per processor for servers and cloud instances, with volume discounts available. ... The previous pricing for the Java SE Advanced program cost $5,000 for a license for each server processor plus a $1,100 annual support fee per server processor, as well as $110 one-time license fee per named user and a $22 annual support fee per named user (each processor has a ten-user minimum). So from (1,100 + 22 * 10) per year per processor + (5,000 + 110 * 10), the cost went down to $300 per processor per year (no one-time fee, no per-user license). That's a >4x drop in price (of course, there were, and are, various bulk discounts, but it's a big price reduction nonetheless). [1]: https://www.infoworld.com/article/3284164/oracle-now-requires-a-subscription-to-use-java-se.html https://www.infoworld.com/article/3284164/oracle-now-require...

blinkingled 6y ago
Was old Java license per Processor or Per Core? Because the new one is Per Core. So if previously I had 4 sockets with 4 cores per socket - I paid 4x$LICENSE - now I am paying 16x$LICENSE. No?
- pron 6y ago
  AFAIK, the definition of processor hasn't changed. Oracle just changed the license and cut the price to be competitive with other support offerings.
  - blinkingled 6y ago
    From the link I posted - > When licensing Oracle programs with Standard Edition One, Standard Edition 2 or Standard Edition in the product name (with the exception of WebCenter Enterprise Capture Standard Edition, Java SE Subscription, Java SE Support, Java SE Advanced, and Java SE Suite), a processor is counted equivalent to an occupied socket; however, in the case of multi-chip modules, each chip in the multi-chip module is counted as one occupied socket. It doesn't get any clearer than that - it is per core. So that's significantly increased cost for pretty much most enterprise users with VMWare and high core count Xeons.
    - reitzensteinm 6y ago
      It really does get clearer than that, because I don't think it's talking about cores. None of the common Intel processors are MCM. They did make a massive 56 core Xeon by gluing two dies together and that would count. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-chip_module https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-chip_module
      - blinkingled 6y ago
        Read the PDF link again. There is multicore for all except products with standard in the name with the exception of Java subscription.
        reitzensteinm 6y ago
        Right, it's pretty clear elsewhere that it's per core. But the section you quoted doesn't clarify anything, it's actually contradictory and bizarre that it's present.
        blinkingled 6y ago
        What I quoted does clarify (although in a convoluted way) that it is multi-core.
        reitzensteinm 6y ago
        Only if Oracle is allowed to redefine the industry standard meaning of MCM. Read literally it does not imply per core pricing, in fact quite the opposite. An 8 core Zen would count as 1. An 8 core Zen 2 would count as 2. A 2 core Pentium D would count as 2, but Core 2 Duo would count as 1 and a Core 2 Quad as 2. A 64 core EPYC would count as 9.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - pron 6y ago
      I think it's actually a bit more complicated than that because we're talking about Java SE, which is in the excepted list. On Intel/AMD, every core is counted as 0.5 "processor units" (http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/contracts/processor-core-factor-table-070634.pdf http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/contracts/processor-core-...) so the unit "processor" price is per 2 cores. But whatever the definition of a processor unit is, it didn't change. The prices both before and after the change are for the same unit.
- pdpi 6y ago
  Java 6 was released in 2006. The first dual-core Opterons and Xeons came out in 2005. The licensing for Java 6 was written in a reality where multi-core wasn't really a thing yet. By the time Java 7 came out, you could easily use a single-socket multi-core processor for workloads where you'd have used a dual or quad socket before. It makes sense that the pricing was adjusted to match the new reality.

by pron 6y ago

blinkingled 6y ago

Was old Java license per Processor or Per Core? Because the new one is Per Core. So if previously I had 4 sockets with 4 cores per socket - I paid 4x$LICENSE - now I am paying 16x$LICENSE. No?

pron 6y ago
AFAIK, the definition of processor hasn't changed. Oracle just changed the license and cut the price to be competitive with other support offerings.
- blinkingled 6y ago
  From the link I posted - > When licensing Oracle programs with Standard Edition One, Standard Edition 2 or Standard Edition in the product name (with the exception of WebCenter Enterprise Capture Standard Edition, Java SE Subscription, Java SE Support, Java SE Advanced, and Java SE Suite), a processor is counted equivalent to an occupied socket; however, in the case of multi-chip modules, each chip in the multi-chip module is counted as one occupied socket. It doesn't get any clearer than that - it is per core. So that's significantly increased cost for pretty much most enterprise users with VMWare and high core count Xeons.
  - reitzensteinm 6y ago
    It really does get clearer than that, because I don't think it's talking about cores. None of the common Intel processors are MCM. They did make a massive 56 core Xeon by gluing two dies together and that would count. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-chip_module https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-chip_module
    - blinkingled 6y ago
      Read the PDF link again. There is multicore for all except products with standard in the name with the exception of Java subscription.
      - reitzensteinm 6y ago
        Right, it's pretty clear elsewhere that it's per core. But the section you quoted doesn't clarify anything, it's actually contradictory and bizarre that it's present.
        blinkingled 6y ago
        What I quoted does clarify (although in a convoluted way) that it is multi-core.
        reitzensteinm 6y ago
        Only if Oracle is allowed to redefine the industry standard meaning of MCM. Read literally it does not imply per core pricing, in fact quite the opposite. An 8 core Zen would count as 1. An 8 core Zen 2 would count as 2. A 2 core Pentium D would count as 2, but Core 2 Duo would count as 1 and a Core 2 Quad as 2. A 64 core EPYC would count as 9.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - pron 6y ago
    I think it's actually a bit more complicated than that because we're talking about Java SE, which is in the excepted list. On Intel/AMD, every core is counted as 0.5 "processor units" (http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/contracts/processor-core-factor-table-070634.pdf http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/contracts/processor-core-...) so the unit "processor" price is per 2 cores. But whatever the definition of a processor unit is, it didn't change. The prices both before and after the change are for the same unit.
pdpi 6y ago
Java 6 was released in 2006. The first dual-core Opterons and Xeons came out in 2005. The licensing for Java 6 was written in a reality where multi-core wasn't really a thing yet. By the time Java 7 came out, you could easily use a single-socket multi-core processor for workloads where you'd have used a dual or quad socket before. It makes sense that the pricing was adjusted to match the new reality.