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My critique is mostly tactical, as in, I am literally saying ‘we don’t need you in this discussion anymore, even to provide insight’. This is something that ca

My critique is mostly tactical, as in, I am literally saying ‘we don’t need you in this discussion anymore, even to provide insight’. This is something that can happen after egregious patterns over time. It is a valid consequence. There’s almost nothing they have to lend to the debate anymore, those opportunities existed for ages. We’ll fix this without them. My stance on this is as valid as their need to have a say. If this stance is a problem that ails the world, that’s fine, it a better problem than what comes with whatever police have to express at this point. It’s a better problem. Edit: I just want to add, the cop is also admitting to crimes. Is the modern blog post ornamentation? Where you can dress yourself up in absolution? Wonderful you put it in blog form. We have no time for it, plus your guilty of crimes. How poetic.

mjlawson 6y ago
Tactically, I disagree with you. You are not the target demographic. When you speak of "we," you do not speak for me, and I'd argue that you don't speak for many people who may find value in this post. Ethically, I also disagree with you. There must be a path back from misconduct in order for us to incentivize change. If people who turn in their badges because of a change of heart, who leave their clan only to be told that they're not welcome, why should they?
mthoms 6y ago
>we don’t need you in this discussion anymore, even to provide insight I strongly disagree. This article has given me more insight into the process by which a cop "becomes evil" than literally any other piece I can recall. I hope it's authentic but who knows. >If this stance is a problem that ails the world, that’s fine, it a better problem than what comes with whatever police have to express at this point. I feel like I read an entirely different piece than you did... the author is not a police officer. He's a former police officer who seems to have genuinely come to hate the profession as much as anybody. Edit: To clarify, I agree with the notion that the system is broken. Which is why we absolutely should be listening to (former) cops who acknowledge its failures. That is, assuming this post is legit of course. I'm inclined to think it is, but in this day and age who knows.
- Melting_Harps 6y ago
  > I strongly disagree. This article has given me more insight into the process by which a cop "becomes evil" than literally any other piece I can recall. I hope it's authentic but who knows. Then its clear you have been the fortunate few who have never had to be subjected to the perverse legal system in the US, or spent any time in low income areas where those tactics are 'business as usual' in what is referred to as policing. This is the norm, shows like The Wire or even Treme (both made by the same director) are just as much documentaries and exposes as they are entertainment. The latter skewing into some sort of misery porn. And to be honest, given this is Hacker News, that doesn't surprise me. I just wonder if it ever occurred to you what the plight of those immense amount of homeless people is, and what happens to them when they're no longer in sight? > I feel like I read an entirely different piece than you did... the author is not a police officer. He's a former police officer who seems to have genuinely come to hate the profession as much as anybody. Again, proving the point that this is not something that has only just occurred out of no-where, but is seemingly systemic in the very system we're discussing. Again, no one involved with any activism is surprised by what just occurred with Police, we've all seen it up close and been subject to it, its what you understand going into them. What was remarkable was how surprised the rest of you were towards them, and how often people are still quick to rationalize their behaviour. This is what authoritarian regimes do, they bolster the police to enforce political decree, not Law. Look at Hong Kong, its way more pervasive than you think and it stems from the same thing.
  - mthoms 6y ago
    Whoa. I've never had a comment of mine so wildly misread. You even managed to throw in a personal attack and a diatribe against all of HN. Incredible. We're in total agreement that the entire system is corrupt. I can't for the life of my understand why you interpreted my comment to mean anything else.
    - Melting_Harps 6y ago
      > Whoa. I've never had a comment of mine so wildly misread. You even managed to throw in a personal attack and a diatribe against all of HN. Incredible. You disagreed with a post that suggests that this wasn't the case. As for the personal 'diatribe,' I've argued this POV here before these recent events to a great deal of opposition as if it was a non-issue. Its in my post History of you care to find it. I even quoted a person in the thread denying the validity of these claims, as if they're even really needed to discern the obvious. > We're in total agreement that the entire system is corrupt. I can't for the life of my understand why you interpreted my comment to mean anything else. Your post doesn't seem to suggest that, but if that's the case then I apologize if you think I was vilifying you. But understand this is visceral for some of us that have been in the same position and have had our Lives thrown into disrepute for no other reason than 'pissing off' someone with a badge and a gun and saw no recourse for their violent behaviour. I'm ultimately glad this happened, if only it allows the country to see what kind of despotism has creeped its way under the guise of Security since 9/11 that is normally kept out of sight from most People. I mean did you see this recent article of the Pentagon targeting GenZ 'terrorists' in some perverse simulation in 2018: https://theintercept.com/2020/06/05/pentagon-war-game-gen-z/ https://theintercept.com/2020/06/05/pentagon-war-game-gen-z/

mjlawson 6y ago

Tactically, I disagree with you. You are not the target demographic. When you speak of "we," you do not speak for me, and I'd argue that you don't speak for many people who may find value in this post. Ethically, I also disagree with you. There must be a path back from misconduct in order for us to incentivize change. If people who turn in their badges because of a change of heart, who leave their clan only to be told that they're not welcome, why should they?

mthoms 6y ago

>we don’t need you in this discussion anymore, even to provide insight I strongly disagree. This article has given me more insight into the process by which a cop "becomes evil" than literally any other piece I can recall. I hope it's authentic but who knows. >If this stance is a problem that ails the world, that’s fine, it a better problem than what comes with whatever police have to express at this point. I feel like I read an entirely different piece than you did... the author is not a police officer. He's a former police officer who seems to have genuinely come to hate the profession as much as anybody. Edit: To clarify, I agree with the notion that the system is broken. Which is why we absolutely should be listening to (former) cops who acknowledge its failures. That is, assuming this post is legit of course. I'm inclined to think it is, but in this day and age who knows.

Melting_Harps 6y ago
> I strongly disagree. This article has given me more insight into the process by which a cop "becomes evil" than literally any other piece I can recall. I hope it's authentic but who knows. Then its clear you have been the fortunate few who have never had to be subjected to the perverse legal system in the US, or spent any time in low income areas where those tactics are 'business as usual' in what is referred to as policing. This is the norm, shows like The Wire or even Treme (both made by the same director) are just as much documentaries and exposes as they are entertainment. The latter skewing into some sort of misery porn. And to be honest, given this is Hacker News, that doesn't surprise me. I just wonder if it ever occurred to you what the plight of those immense amount of homeless people is, and what happens to them when they're no longer in sight? > I feel like I read an entirely different piece than you did... the author is not a police officer. He's a former police officer who seems to have genuinely come to hate the profession as much as anybody. Again, proving the point that this is not something that has only just occurred out of no-where, but is seemingly systemic in the very system we're discussing. Again, no one involved with any activism is surprised by what just occurred with Police, we've all seen it up close and been subject to it, its what you understand going into them. What was remarkable was how surprised the rest of you were towards them, and how often people are still quick to rationalize their behaviour. This is what authoritarian regimes do, they bolster the police to enforce political decree, not Law. Look at Hong Kong, its way more pervasive than you think and it stems from the same thing.
- mthoms 6y ago
  Whoa. I've never had a comment of mine so wildly misread. You even managed to throw in a personal attack and a diatribe against all of HN. Incredible. We're in total agreement that the entire system is corrupt. I can't for the life of my understand why you interpreted my comment to mean anything else.
  - Melting_Harps 6y ago
    > Whoa. I've never had a comment of mine so wildly misread. You even managed to throw in a personal attack and a diatribe against all of HN. Incredible. You disagreed with a post that suggests that this wasn't the case. As for the personal 'diatribe,' I've argued this POV here before these recent events to a great deal of opposition as if it was a non-issue. Its in my post History of you care to find it. I even quoted a person in the thread denying the validity of these claims, as if they're even really needed to discern the obvious. > We're in total agreement that the entire system is corrupt. I can't for the life of my understand why you interpreted my comment to mean anything else. Your post doesn't seem to suggest that, but if that's the case then I apologize if you think I was vilifying you. But understand this is visceral for some of us that have been in the same position and have had our Lives thrown into disrepute for no other reason than 'pissing off' someone with a badge and a gun and saw no recourse for their violent behaviour. I'm ultimately glad this happened, if only it allows the country to see what kind of despotism has creeped its way under the guise of Security since 9/11 that is normally kept out of sight from most People. I mean did you see this recent article of the Pentagon targeting GenZ 'terrorists' in some perverse simulation in 2018: https://theintercept.com/2020/06/05/pentagon-war-game-gen-z/ https://theintercept.com/2020/06/05/pentagon-war-game-gen-z/