5 ms·

I blame flat design (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_design https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_design) Before flat design the pseudo-3d visual we had was gi

by rakoo 6y ago

I blame flat design (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_design https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_design) Before flat design the pseudo-3d visual we had was giving us helpful visual clues with the desktop metaphor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desktop_metaphor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desktop_metaphor). We knew we had different containers, those containers had a header and content, the header contained buttons, etc... All of this was clearly visible. Flat design supposes we are already used to this and simplifies the UI to make it look cleaner. In the process we lose all the cues we had before and have to guess where things start and where they end. We've always mocked our elders for not understanding computers, not knowing where the firefox window ends and where the taskbar starts, but now with flat design we're in the same situation. There's no depth, no indication that anything is actionable, no clear demarcation. It would have been ok if it didn't still follow the desktop metaphor: I find this much more acceptable on mobile for example, but it's not working well on desktops.

dnautics 6y ago
to be fair before flat design came I remember there was an extreme skeuomorphism trend, that flat was a response to. It's also not like totally flat is terrible, one could imagine an effective LCARS-like UI (and I'm sure, many of us dream of it still).
- badsectoracula 6y ago
  I've read about that extreme skeuomorphism trend before as a response for the flat design, but i think it is largely exaggerated. Outside of some Apple applications in macOS getting a leather skin or whatever for a single macOS version and getting mocked for it, there hasn't been much of a trend for unnecessary skeuomorphism on the desktop. The worst i can think of were some device driver utilities taking themability to unnecessary extremes (i remember the Windows 9x drivers for an old scanner i had using... animated AVIs of opening/closing wooden windows, for some reason :-P) but those were very rare outliers, not a trend.
  - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
    I thought the skeuomorphism in iOS was pretty bad, even at the time. Although, my problem wasn't skeuomorphism so much as the result of it just looking ugly. I mean: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7d/IOS_6_Home_Screen.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7d/IOS_6_Home_Sc... Everyone is going to have different tastes, but IMO there's just nothing attractive about that! OS X, by contrast, looked consistently gorgeous before it went flat: https://i.ibb.co/qkC8kcw/Screen-Shot-2020-06-09-at-7-40-02-PM.png https://i.ibb.co/qkC8kcw/Screen-Shot-2020-06-09-at-7-40-02-P... It's also really not particularly skeuomorphic, beyond vaguely suggesting a metal surface in some places.
    - nineteen999 6y ago
      Lots of skeuomorphism in audio VST/RTAS/AAx effects plugin, but you can argue there that it at least makes sense since they're designed to appeal to guitar/synth and audio engineering enthusiasts who are very used to having knobs to mess with.
      - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
        And, like, those skeuomorphic knobs looked good! Aesthetics should be what ultimately matter in these conversations.
    - badsectoracula 6y ago
      I agree about the OS X screenshot but... i do not understand what is skeuomorphic about the iOS 6 one. It is just a grid of icons with mostly the same photorealistic style as the OS X icons (though with a greater tendency to be squareish, but i think that fits better with the always grid-y interface that iOS has). And FWIW personally i prefer it to any later iOS style. Also i was really referring to desktop. I think a bit of skeuomorphism can be fine for a mobile device that you interact with via a touch screen. For the desktop though, i do not think it fits, but even then... it was rare, not something that was so rampant as to warrant an entire industry to change its style everywhere. The applications i had in mind were something like these: https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/notes-full-screen-big.png https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/notes... https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/reminders.png https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/remin...
- slantyyz 6y ago
  While I am not a fan of (but don't hate) skeumorphic design, I really learned to appreciate skeumorphism in my many failed efforts to get my father (who was in his mid 70s the first time I tried) to learn how to use a smartphone. He doesn't want to read stuff on the screen, and a lot of concepts just didn't click with him. Would I be able to get him to learn a smartphone with a fully skeumorphic design? Probably not, but he might have understood more concepts than I could teach him with a flat design.

by rakoo 6y ago

dnautics 6y ago

to be fair before flat design came I remember there was an extreme skeuomorphism trend, that flat was a response to. It's also not like totally flat is terrible, one could imagine an effective LCARS-like UI (and I'm sure, many of us dream of it still).

badsectoracula 6y ago
I've read about that extreme skeuomorphism trend before as a response for the flat design, but i think it is largely exaggerated. Outside of some Apple applications in macOS getting a leather skin or whatever for a single macOS version and getting mocked for it, there hasn't been much of a trend for unnecessary skeuomorphism on the desktop. The worst i can think of were some device driver utilities taking themability to unnecessary extremes (i remember the Windows 9x drivers for an old scanner i had using... animated AVIs of opening/closing wooden windows, for some reason :-P) but those were very rare outliers, not a trend.
- Wowfunhappy 6y ago
  I thought the skeuomorphism in iOS was pretty bad, even at the time. Although, my problem wasn't skeuomorphism so much as the result of it just looking ugly. I mean: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7d/IOS_6_Home_Screen.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7d/IOS_6_Home_Sc... Everyone is going to have different tastes, but IMO there's just nothing attractive about that! OS X, by contrast, looked consistently gorgeous before it went flat: https://i.ibb.co/qkC8kcw/Screen-Shot-2020-06-09-at-7-40-02-PM.png https://i.ibb.co/qkC8kcw/Screen-Shot-2020-06-09-at-7-40-02-P... It's also really not particularly skeuomorphic, beyond vaguely suggesting a metal surface in some places.
  - nineteen999 6y ago
    Lots of skeuomorphism in audio VST/RTAS/AAx effects plugin, but you can argue there that it at least makes sense since they're designed to appeal to guitar/synth and audio engineering enthusiasts who are very used to having knobs to mess with.
    - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
      And, like, those skeuomorphic knobs looked good! Aesthetics should be what ultimately matter in these conversations.
  - badsectoracula 6y ago
    I agree about the OS X screenshot but... i do not understand what is skeuomorphic about the iOS 6 one. It is just a grid of icons with mostly the same photorealistic style as the OS X icons (though with a greater tendency to be squareish, but i think that fits better with the always grid-y interface that iOS has). And FWIW personally i prefer it to any later iOS style. Also i was really referring to desktop. I think a bit of skeuomorphism can be fine for a mobile device that you interact with via a touch screen. For the desktop though, i do not think it fits, but even then... it was rare, not something that was so rampant as to warrant an entire industry to change its style everywhere. The applications i had in mind were something like these: https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/notes-full-screen-big.png https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/notes... https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/reminders.png https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/remin...
slantyyz 6y ago
While I am not a fan of (but don't hate) skeumorphic design, I really learned to appreciate skeumorphism in my many failed efforts to get my father (who was in his mid 70s the first time I tried) to learn how to use a smartphone. He doesn't want to read stuff on the screen, and a lot of concepts just didn't click with him. Would I be able to get him to learn a smartphone with a fully skeumorphic design? Probably not, but he might have understood more concepts than I could teach him with a flat design.