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Microsoft Employees Call on CEO to Cancel Police Contracts

25 points by Koshkin 6y ago

adelHBN 6y ago
I hope this doesn't happen. We've had police forces since ancient Chinese and Persian empires. They are like organized religion and the educational system. Yes, lots of corrupt elements... but distancing from police or defund it is not the answer. Adding resources and reforming them is the answer. And no, by resources I don't mean more guns... more educations, more checks and balances... that's what we do with bad teachers and priests.
- ultrarunner 6y ago
  American police organizations are barely 200 years old. Prostitution is also an old profession, but it shouldn’t exactly be encouraged. We should judge these things by their merits, and American police have a very checkered culture and track record that makes supporting them uncomfortable at best.
  - mrits 6y ago
    Why shouldn't prostitution be encouraged?
    - Barrin92 6y ago
      significant exposure to violence and studies suggest trauma, drug abuse, and mental illness at rates far above the general population. One study in Australia found PTSD prevalence among street workers above levels of war veterans. https://theconversation.com/a-soldier-and-a-sex-worker-walk-into-a-therapists-office-whos-more-likely-to-have-ptsd-71464 https://theconversation.com/a-soldier-and-a-sex-worker-walk-...
      - mrits 6y ago
        I think that study you linked does more to prove there isn't significant risk of increased PTSD for prostitutes. It's very close to the general population average. Since it's an average I would think you could find other professionals with more PTSD likelihood, such as trauma surgeons, social workers, or social media content censors.
        Barrin92 6y ago
        did you misread the source? The provided numbers are 8-12% in the general population, and between 40-55%(!) among sex workers.
        mrits 6y ago
        Yes, I did. My apologies!
    - ultrarunner 6y ago
      Perhaps I "aspired to" would be clearer. I very much think that prohibition has, like other things, made it more dangerous. But it sounds like hard, dangerous work with likely damaging effects means other professions should be preferred.
- garlicGum 6y ago
  There needs to be systematic reform. We can start with the demilitarization of the police, independent investigations, the end of qualified immunity, psychological evaluations, and harsher punishments for police. We also need to change the way the police and legal system interact. Right now, police are being protected by the legal system because courts depend on them too much.
- smt88 6y ago
  I think you (understandably) misinterpreted "defund" the police to mean "disbanding" or "abolishing" the police. It actually means redirecting police funds into more appropriate resources[1], such as first-responders trained to deal with mental-health issues. Police are often called for non-crimes. They also don't need millions for military-grade equipment... 1. https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/criminal-justice/ct-police-defund-explainer-20200608-rasggle24ffwpnfwxqt3rlmvj4-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/criminal-justice/ct-poli...
  - danaur 6y ago
    If people continuously misinterpret this, and it is being used as a marketing statement, do you not think there is an issue with how it is being represented? If people outside the movement continuously make the same error in interpretation seems like you need either better education or messaging to not hurt the movement.
    - smt88 6y ago
      Yes, I do think there is an issue with how it's being represented. That's why I said it was understandable that GP was confused.
    - garlicGum 6y ago
      Given how much trump lies and spins the truth to suit his purpose[1], I don’t think it would make a difference. 1. https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/trump-comments-on-buffalo-protester-martin-gugino-antifa-police/ https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/trump-comments-on-buffalo-p...
mensetmanusman 6y ago
I love the American federal system. I am honestly very curious to see what happens if different states test banning the police or dramatically lowering funding of them. We need to see if/how much we are over-spending, and this is a perfect opportunity for an experiment. E.g. what will be the differential road fatality rate, drunk driving assaults, etc. If I were in charge, I would tie police funding inversely to alcohol taxes. E.g. decrease police funding, increase alcohol taxes. This is only because alcohol is a factor in most crimes, it should likely not be available at low cost due to the cost to society (like carbon taxes).
- NonEUCitizen 6y ago
  Camden, NJ disbanded (and rebuilt) its police department in 2012: https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/09/us/disband-police-camden-new-jersey-trnd/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/09/us/disband-police-camden-new-...
garlicGum 6y ago
Given how much the orange idiot lies and spins the truth to suit his purpose[1], I don’t think it would make a difference. 1. https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/trump-calls-buffalo-protester-martin-gugino-antifa-provocateur/ https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/trump-calls-buffalo-protest...
- JungleGymSam 6y ago
  Don't talk about your mom that way.
john4532452 6y ago
IBM has decided to not involve in govt projects involving face recognition technology citing bias https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23472762 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23472762

25 points by Koshkin 6y ago

I hope this doesn't happen. We've had police forces since ancient Chinese and Persian empires. They are like organized religion and the educational system. Yes, lots of corrupt elements... but distancing from police or defund it is not the answer. Adding resources and reforming them is the answer. And no, by resources I don't mean more guns... more educations, more checks and balances... that's what we do with bad teachers and priests.

ultrarunner 6y ago
American police organizations are barely 200 years old. Prostitution is also an old profession, but it shouldn’t exactly be encouraged. We should judge these things by their merits, and American police have a very checkered culture and track record that makes supporting them uncomfortable at best.
- mrits 6y ago
  Why shouldn't prostitution be encouraged?
  - Barrin92 6y ago
    significant exposure to violence and studies suggest trauma, drug abuse, and mental illness at rates far above the general population. One study in Australia found PTSD prevalence among street workers above levels of war veterans. https://theconversation.com/a-soldier-and-a-sex-worker-walk-into-a-therapists-office-whos-more-likely-to-have-ptsd-71464 https://theconversation.com/a-soldier-and-a-sex-worker-walk-...
    - mrits 6y ago
      I think that study you linked does more to prove there isn't significant risk of increased PTSD for prostitutes. It's very close to the general population average. Since it's an average I would think you could find other professionals with more PTSD likelihood, such as trauma surgeons, social workers, or social media content censors.
      - Barrin92 6y ago
        did you misread the source? The provided numbers are 8-12% in the general population, and between 40-55%(!) among sex workers.
        mrits 6y ago
        Yes, I did. My apologies!
  - ultrarunner 6y ago
    Perhaps I "aspired to" would be clearer. I very much think that prohibition has, like other things, made it more dangerous. But it sounds like hard, dangerous work with likely damaging effects means other professions should be preferred.
garlicGum 6y ago
There needs to be systematic reform. We can start with the demilitarization of the police, independent investigations, the end of qualified immunity, psychological evaluations, and harsher punishments for police. We also need to change the way the police and legal system interact. Right now, police are being protected by the legal system because courts depend on them too much.
smt88 6y ago
I think you (understandably) misinterpreted "defund" the police to mean "disbanding" or "abolishing" the police. It actually means redirecting police funds into more appropriate resources[1], such as first-responders trained to deal with mental-health issues. Police are often called for non-crimes. They also don't need millions for military-grade equipment... 1. https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/criminal-justice/ct-police-defund-explainer-20200608-rasggle24ffwpnfwxqt3rlmvj4-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/criminal-justice/ct-poli...
- danaur 6y ago
  If people continuously misinterpret this, and it is being used as a marketing statement, do you not think there is an issue with how it is being represented? If people outside the movement continuously make the same error in interpretation seems like you need either better education or messaging to not hurt the movement.
  - smt88 6y ago
    Yes, I do think there is an issue with how it's being represented. That's why I said it was understandable that GP was confused.
  - garlicGum 6y ago
    Given how much trump lies and spins the truth to suit his purpose[1], I don’t think it would make a difference. 1. https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/trump-comments-on-buffalo-protester-martin-gugino-antifa-police/ https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/trump-comments-on-buffalo-p...

mensetmanusman 6y ago

I love the American federal system. I am honestly very curious to see what happens if different states test banning the police or dramatically lowering funding of them. We need to see if/how much we are over-spending, and this is a perfect opportunity for an experiment. E.g. what will be the differential road fatality rate, drunk driving assaults, etc. If I were in charge, I would tie police funding inversely to alcohol taxes. E.g. decrease police funding, increase alcohol taxes. This is only because alcohol is a factor in most crimes, it should likely not be available at low cost due to the cost to society (like carbon taxes).

NonEUCitizen 6y ago
Camden, NJ disbanded (and rebuilt) its police department in 2012: https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/09/us/disband-police-camden-new-jersey-trnd/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/09/us/disband-police-camden-new-...

garlicGum 6y ago

Given how much the orange idiot lies and spins the truth to suit his purpose[1], I don’t think it would make a difference. 1. https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/trump-calls-buffalo-protester-martin-gugino-antifa-provocateur/ https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/trump-calls-buffalo-protest...

JungleGymSam 6y ago
Don't talk about your mom that way.

john4532452 6y ago

IBM has decided to not involve in govt projects involving face recognition technology citing bias https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23472762 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23472762