4 ms·

How about “Deunionize Police”? Doesn’t have the same ring, but would solve many of the issues people are protesting about (accountability, etc).

by voisin 6y ago

KorematsuFred 6y ago
Democrats are unlikely to do that. If de-unionizing police is solution to incompetent cops what is the solution to incompetent schools ?
- joelhoffman 6y ago
  I think most people do not see most teachers as the basic problem in public schools. E.g. polls show overwhelming support for paying teachers more. The same has been true of police, but less so - Maybe that's changed? If people perceive most of the workers as the basic problem in addition to the management and the government, which they rarely do, but police may now be an exception, I don't see why the union should be spared.
nickff 6y ago
The problem is that would lead to cognitive dissonance, as the people who want to defund the police also tend to be very pro-union.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- gremlinsinc 6y ago
  I lean libertarian socialist. Big unionist, and I say fuck police unions. End them all.
eric_b 6y ago
Personally I'd go with "Reform the Police" or "Police the Police". Or maybe "De-Militarize the Police" which is not the only goal but one with broader support.
- minikites 6y ago
  How would de-militarizing the police affect the overwhelming racism problem that exists in police departments nationwide?
- neonate 6y ago
  Just as a slogan, "Reform" is too boring and vague. "Police the police" is catchy but sounds more about oversight, which is not really the idea here. I thought of "Reduce the police", which might get broader support than "defund", but isn't as catchy and maybe still wouldn't get majority support. Polls show the police are still popular, though obviously and justifiably less popular lately. I suspect these calls for defunding (and abolition) are going to scare public opinion back in the other direction, which is a pity, since there really is a reform position to stake out here. For example, I bet even most police offers don't want to be the ones to have to deal with mental illness, addiction, and homelessness. A moderate and non-scary reform movement would surely get massive public support at this time, while a radical one is likely to provoke a counterreaction. It probably always works that way though, and eventually something comes out of it anyhow.
  - voisin 6y ago
    How about “Calm the Police” or “Calm 9-1-1”
    - neonate 6y ago
      Not energetic enough. How about "Replace the police"?
- gremlinsinc 6y ago
  Maybe let BLM pick and setup their own police inspectors and have some oversight over an agency that polices the police. Instead of D.A. handling cop cases it would be members of this agency (they'd have lawyers who handle prosecutions - their own D.A.). Could be on a national or state by state level.
woah 6y ago
This is worrying to many on the left, since it implies that unions could be bad. The ideologically consistent viewpoint is that the very concept of policing itself is so evil that it taints even associated unions.
Fjolsvith 6y ago
Maybe we could reorganize the police as a private enforcement group that wouldn't answer to the courts or constitution? Sort of like the brownshirts before WWII. [1] Edit: Youtube took down a video of them back in 2019. [2] 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmabteilung https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmabteilung 2. https://paleofuture.gizmodo.com/youtube-bans-anti-nazi-documentary-from-1938-for-violat-1837436638 https://paleofuture.gizmodo.com/youtube-bans-anti-nazi-docum...
- gremlinsinc 6y ago
  That sounds like it goes in the opposite direction, we need police to have MORE not LESS oversight and be under more scrutiny and actually get punished (probably 2-3x the sentence of a non-officer).
  - Fjolsvith 6y ago
    And yet, the no-police zone in Seattle is just what I described.

How about “Deunionize Police”? Doesn’t have the same ring, but would solve many of the issues people are protesting about (accountability, etc).

by voisin 6y ago

How about “Deunionize Police”? Doesn’t have the same ring, but would solve many of the issues people are protesting about (accountability, etc).

KorematsuFred 6y ago

Democrats are unlikely to do that. If de-unionizing police is solution to incompetent cops what is the solution to incompetent schools ?

joelhoffman 6y ago
I think most people do not see most teachers as the basic problem in public schools. E.g. polls show overwhelming support for paying teachers more. The same has been true of police, but less so - Maybe that's changed? If people perceive most of the workers as the basic problem in addition to the management and the government, which they rarely do, but police may now be an exception, I don't see why the union should be spared.

nickff 6y ago

The problem is that would lead to cognitive dissonance, as the people who want to defund the police also tend to be very pro-union.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
gremlinsinc 6y ago
I lean libertarian socialist. Big unionist, and I say fuck police unions. End them all.

eric_b 6y ago

Personally I'd go with "Reform the Police" or "Police the Police". Or maybe "De-Militarize the Police" which is not the only goal but one with broader support.

minikites 6y ago
How would de-militarizing the police affect the overwhelming racism problem that exists in police departments nationwide?
neonate 6y ago
Just as a slogan, "Reform" is too boring and vague. "Police the police" is catchy but sounds more about oversight, which is not really the idea here. I thought of "Reduce the police", which might get broader support than "defund", but isn't as catchy and maybe still wouldn't get majority support. Polls show the police are still popular, though obviously and justifiably less popular lately. I suspect these calls for defunding (and abolition) are going to scare public opinion back in the other direction, which is a pity, since there really is a reform position to stake out here. For example, I bet even most police offers don't want to be the ones to have to deal with mental illness, addiction, and homelessness. A moderate and non-scary reform movement would surely get massive public support at this time, while a radical one is likely to provoke a counterreaction. It probably always works that way though, and eventually something comes out of it anyhow.
- voisin 6y ago
  How about “Calm the Police” or “Calm 9-1-1”
  - neonate 6y ago
    Not energetic enough. How about "Replace the police"?
gremlinsinc 6y ago
Maybe let BLM pick and setup their own police inspectors and have some oversight over an agency that polices the police. Instead of D.A. handling cop cases it would be members of this agency (they'd have lawyers who handle prosecutions - their own D.A.). Could be on a national or state by state level.

woah 6y ago

This is worrying to many on the left, since it implies that unions could be bad. The ideologically consistent viewpoint is that the very concept of policing itself is so evil that it taints even associated unions.

Fjolsvith 6y ago

Maybe we could reorganize the police as a private enforcement group that wouldn't answer to the courts or constitution? Sort of like the brownshirts before WWII. [1] Edit: Youtube took down a video of them back in 2019. [2] 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmabteilung https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmabteilung 2. https://paleofuture.gizmodo.com/youtube-bans-anti-nazi-documentary-from-1938-for-violat-1837436638 https://paleofuture.gizmodo.com/youtube-bans-anti-nazi-docum...

gremlinsinc 6y ago
That sounds like it goes in the opposite direction, we need police to have MORE not LESS oversight and be under more scrutiny and actually get punished (probably 2-3x the sentence of a non-officer).
- Fjolsvith 6y ago
  And yet, the no-police zone in Seattle is just what I described.