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What it really means is taking a public sector job and moving it to the private sector. Private police forces employed by the rich will maintain order on priva

by wolco 6y ago

What it really means is taking a public sector job and moving it to the private sector. Private police forces employed by the rich will maintain order on private property. The poor will be less protected.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
skannamalai 6y ago
Okay, but in that scenario, that private police officer won't have the collective benefit of a public union. A DA won't be biting the hands that feed them if they choose to prosecute a private police officer. And the poor are dying from a death of a thousand social services cuts- diminished mental and physical health services, childcare and teen programs, etc. It's not unreasonable to assess whether local spending on police and other services can be re-balanced for better community outcomes.
- wolco 6y ago
  DA are elected. Voted[in by the same people who want a powerful private police force. I think it would go the other way and protections would be granted to these private forces when they are asked to take over public enforcement in public spaces. They also wouldn't be bound by same standards police have now. DAs wouldn't have access to public information they have now because the information would be private. Nor would private police be forced underlaw to declose facts. That notepad that gets handed in doesn't exist nor does the body camera footage. Don't say it can't happen because many prisons are private and much worse for the prisioner, the guards, the families. Think slave labor doesn't exist? Try earning 45 cents an hour.. in America in jail.
Novukus 6y ago
I'm not sure why people always jump to such extremes. When I see "defunding", I see something more like Camden, where they fired all the police officers and hired non-union to form a new police department. https://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/29/nyregion/overrun-by-crime-camden-trades-in-its-police-force.html https://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/29/nyregion/overrun-by-crime... https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/01/what-happened-to-crime-in-camden/549542/ https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/01/what-happened-to-crim... Seems like it was relatively successful without turning into a neoliberal hellscape.
- rstupek 6y ago
  "After Camden, New Jersey, “disbanded” its police department seven years ago, as Keeanga-Yamahtta Taylor writes in From #blacklivesmatter to Black Liberation, the footprint of the police force expanded, firing 250 officers and hiring 411 new ones, along with 120 “civilian clerks.” In its first year, excessive force complaints still topped those of any other police department in the state. “Broken windows” policing escalated, with disorderly conduct summonses increasing by 43 percent."
  - Novukus 6y ago
    His book is from 2016, which I assume was referencing the 2014 high. https://whyy.org/articles/complaints-excessive-police-force-plummet-camden/ https://whyy.org/articles/complaints-excessive-police-force-... > With about a month left in 2017, 15 complaints are on the books, roughly half of last year’s total. > In 2014, the total was 65 – the highest in a state that has its share of crime-ridden cities. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-04/how-camden-new-jersey-reformed-its-police-department https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-04/how-camde... > By the department’s account, reports of excessive force complaints in Camden have dropped 95% since 2014. I can't find many sources about the number of excessive force complaints in Camden after 2014. Assuming the numbers are accurate, I'd say the lesson is that it isn't a magic bullet. You might end up hiring a bunch of sadistic assholes again anyway. But without a union obstructing everything you do, it does give you a lot of power over regulating conduct and implementing guidelines for how officers apply (or don't apply) force, how they handle potentially dangerous situations, how they handle people in general, whether they prefer de-escalation over seeing citizens purely as dangers to be dealt with. There's actually a chance at accountability without a union obstructing every attempt to improve behaviour. If you have somebody in charge who cares about improving the policing environment (and the appropriate political, judicial and public oversight), these seem to be very good things to me. edit: It deleted my last edit. Balls. https://www.nj.com/camden/2017/08/how_njs_most_dangerous_city_is_trying_to_stop_poli.html https://www.nj.com/camden/2017/08/how_njs_most_dangerous_cit...

by wolco 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

skannamalai 6y ago

Okay, but in that scenario, that private police officer won't have the collective benefit of a public union. A DA won't be biting the hands that feed them if they choose to prosecute a private police officer. And the poor are dying from a death of a thousand social services cuts- diminished mental and physical health services, childcare and teen programs, etc. It's not unreasonable to assess whether local spending on police and other services can be re-balanced for better community outcomes.

wolco 6y ago
DA are elected. Voted[in by the same people who want a powerful private police force. I think it would go the other way and protections would be granted to these private forces when they are asked to take over public enforcement in public spaces. They also wouldn't be bound by same standards police have now. DAs wouldn't have access to public information they have now because the information would be private. Nor would private police be forced underlaw to declose facts. That notepad that gets handed in doesn't exist nor does the body camera footage. Don't say it can't happen because many prisons are private and much worse for the prisioner, the guards, the families. Think slave labor doesn't exist? Try earning 45 cents an hour.. in America in jail.

Novukus 6y ago

I'm not sure why people always jump to such extremes. When I see "defunding", I see something more like Camden, where they fired all the police officers and hired non-union to form a new police department. https://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/29/nyregion/overrun-by-crime-camden-trades-in-its-police-force.html https://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/29/nyregion/overrun-by-crime... https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/01/what-happened-to-crime-in-camden/549542/ https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/01/what-happened-to-crim... Seems like it was relatively successful without turning into a neoliberal hellscape.

rstupek 6y ago
"After Camden, New Jersey, “disbanded” its police department seven years ago, as Keeanga-Yamahtta Taylor writes in From #blacklivesmatter to Black Liberation, the footprint of the police force expanded, firing 250 officers and hiring 411 new ones, along with 120 “civilian clerks.” In its first year, excessive force complaints still topped those of any other police department in the state. “Broken windows” policing escalated, with disorderly conduct summonses increasing by 43 percent."
- Novukus 6y ago
  His book is from 2016, which I assume was referencing the 2014 high. https://whyy.org/articles/complaints-excessive-police-force-plummet-camden/ https://whyy.org/articles/complaints-excessive-police-force-... > With about a month left in 2017, 15 complaints are on the books, roughly half of last year’s total. > In 2014, the total was 65 – the highest in a state that has its share of crime-ridden cities. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-04/how-camden-new-jersey-reformed-its-police-department https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-04/how-camde... > By the department’s account, reports of excessive force complaints in Camden have dropped 95% since 2014. I can't find many sources about the number of excessive force complaints in Camden after 2014. Assuming the numbers are accurate, I'd say the lesson is that it isn't a magic bullet. You might end up hiring a bunch of sadistic assholes again anyway. But without a union obstructing everything you do, it does give you a lot of power over regulating conduct and implementing guidelines for how officers apply (or don't apply) force, how they handle potentially dangerous situations, how they handle people in general, whether they prefer de-escalation over seeing citizens purely as dangers to be dealt with. There's actually a chance at accountability without a union obstructing every attempt to improve behaviour. If you have somebody in charge who cares about improving the policing environment (and the appropriate political, judicial and public oversight), these seem to be very good things to me. edit: It deleted my last edit. Balls. https://www.nj.com/camden/2017/08/how_njs_most_dangerous_city_is_trying_to_stop_poli.html https://www.nj.com/camden/2017/08/how_njs_most_dangerous_cit...