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Firmware engineering and IOT is a huge mess At least in my experience, there aren't many opportunities for career growth in that area unless you switch to regu

by VRay 6y ago

Firmware engineering and IOT is a huge mess At least in my experience, there aren't many opportunities for career growth in that area unless you switch to regular app/web development, or you move to a snazzier company like Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, etc. (Or start a disruptive startup..) I wonder if there's a "brain drain" effect that's causing this industrial software to be persistently low quality and susceptible to attack

JoeAltmaier 6y ago
Well, some 'growth' happens just by raising your rates. Not a lot of folks willing to do IoT and firmware. I just charge more every year. And yes its a mess. Folks resist using real security on their phone or desktop. Imaging an embedded device they buy and want to forget about. They sure don't want any passwords or keys that they'll promptly forget! How many times have I reset my router to factory defaults because, who knows what the admin password is I set two years ago and never used since? I've put security into devices, and had the client want it taken out. Because their installers find it onerous. And, 'nobody is going to attack my pool pump controller!'
- indigochill 6y ago
  There is probably a good reason for this that I don't know, but why haven't physical keys replaced passwords yet? Want to manage your IoT device? Just slot in a USB key, do your thing, and unslot it. You don't really have to sweat the security of the key laying around because its mere existence requires an attacker perform physical penetration which is a different attack profile from someone just cruising Shodan. Granted, a USB key doesn't make sense for every device, but e.g. it seems like it would make a lot of sense for my router.
  - 0xCMP 6y ago
    I wish thats how a lot of things work, but I imagine it would end up encouraging some to create "proprietary" ones (only ours that has special certificate) to work. Then charge like crazy the same way dealers do with car keys.
    - masnaox 6y ago
      except dealer keys are software. so I guess car firmware is already the worst of both? which further reinforces the point of the top comment in this thread we are in.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- x86_64Ubuntu 6y ago
  I remember when IoT was getting big. They talked about how one day, hackers might be able to take over your Nest or other smart thermostat and set the temp to 90-something degrees until you paid them. I laughed at that. I also remember when a bunch of refrigerators died or something because the screen used a software that was deprecated. I would be pretty upset to pay all that money for a fridge just to have it die on me in such a manner.
  - blaser-waffle 6y ago
    OTOH I could run Skyrim on my fridge. Kill some time waiting for my fridge to make ice, etc.
- ChuckNorris89 6y ago
  Where do you live that you can charge rates for your firmware work? In my area, firmware development is only full time employment.
  - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
    After 20 years in the industry, I have several regular clients. Been contracting for decades.
peterkos 6y ago
> Firmware engineering and IOT is a huge mess @ bryan cantrill amirite
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

by VRay 6y ago

JoeAltmaier 6y ago

Well, some 'growth' happens just by raising your rates. Not a lot of folks willing to do IoT and firmware. I just charge more every year. And yes its a mess. Folks resist using real security on their phone or desktop. Imaging an embedded device they buy and want to forget about. They sure don't want any passwords or keys that they'll promptly forget! How many times have I reset my router to factory defaults because, who knows what the admin password is I set two years ago and never used since? I've put security into devices, and had the client want it taken out. Because their installers find it onerous. And, 'nobody is going to attack my pool pump controller!'

indigochill 6y ago
There is probably a good reason for this that I don't know, but why haven't physical keys replaced passwords yet? Want to manage your IoT device? Just slot in a USB key, do your thing, and unslot it. You don't really have to sweat the security of the key laying around because its mere existence requires an attacker perform physical penetration which is a different attack profile from someone just cruising Shodan. Granted, a USB key doesn't make sense for every device, but e.g. it seems like it would make a lot of sense for my router.
- 0xCMP 6y ago
  I wish thats how a lot of things work, but I imagine it would end up encouraging some to create "proprietary" ones (only ours that has special certificate) to work. Then charge like crazy the same way dealers do with car keys.
  - masnaox 6y ago
    except dealer keys are software. so I guess car firmware is already the worst of both? which further reinforces the point of the top comment in this thread we are in.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
x86_64Ubuntu 6y ago
I remember when IoT was getting big. They talked about how one day, hackers might be able to take over your Nest or other smart thermostat and set the temp to 90-something degrees until you paid them. I laughed at that. I also remember when a bunch of refrigerators died or something because the screen used a software that was deprecated. I would be pretty upset to pay all that money for a fridge just to have it die on me in such a manner.
- blaser-waffle 6y ago
  OTOH I could run Skyrim on my fridge. Kill some time waiting for my fridge to make ice, etc.
ChuckNorris89 6y ago
Where do you live that you can charge rates for your firmware work? In my area, firmware development is only full time employment.
- JoeAltmaier 6y ago
  After 20 years in the industry, I have several regular clients. Been contracting for decades.

peterkos 6y ago

> Firmware engineering and IOT is a huge mess @ bryan cantrill amirite

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]