5 ms·

I would love a faithful replication of the BeOS/Haiku desktop on Linux.

waddlesplash 6y ago
People have tried it before, but all those projects are now defunct. Ultimately it winds up being "just another Linux desktop environment", or even a mere reskin of another DE. The kind of deep system integration that is possible when the entire system is developed as one project is extremely difficult, if not actually impossible, to do in the Linux ecosystem.
- willtim 6y ago
  Unfortunately as much as I love Linux, you are absolutely right. But I think it more of a social problem than a technical one.
- zozbot234 6y ago
  The main appeal of Haiku OS back in the day was its soft-realtime focus wrt. UX and multimedia, and you could get there quite easily with modern-day Linux. Especially if you add the PREEMPT_RT patchset and use the cgroups2 tuning knobs to improve priority of user-interaction tasks.
  - outworlder 6y ago
    The filesystem was pretty amazing too (and maybe still is?).
- LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
  Crazy idea: Have you ever thought of porting your desktop environment to Genode? ( https://genode.org/ https://genode.org/ ) And fully integrating their Sculpt into it? I mean, on Amd64 you are already binary incompatible, so that wouldn't count as an argument against it.
  - waddlesplash 6y ago
    Someone suggested it (but then, the community is large enough that all far-fetched-but-not-impossible ideas have probably been mentioned at one point or another :)). I don't really know what the differences between porting Haiku's userland to that or to Linux would be. Everyone loves to make arguments about how microkernels are so great and all, but there still isn't a major operating system or distribution with a significant number of everyday users on one. Plus, all of our same philosophical objections to using the Linux (or any other kernel) as the basis for Haiku would still apply.
    - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
      Hm. For one they have seamless Virtual Box integration. Which means NATIVE vbox-port running on that, and fast. Can use one of the fastest (message passing) micro kernels available. Which seems fitting to the concepts of Haiku from my layman point of view? What i'd imagine is your desktop, with the exact look and feel and usage concepts ripped free from Beos/Haiku kernel stuff, and running atop SeL4 instead, with BFS running in some user task, thereby not loosing all the database/tag-capable stuff for the DE. Maybe even having more drivers for contemporary hardware? Also security, network stack?
    - chelmuth 6y ago
      Also some one started it with HoG (Haiku on Genode) https://discuss.haiku-os.org/t/genode-and-haiku/8384 https://discuss.haiku-os.org/t/genode-and-haiku/8384
      - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
        Phew! Not so crazy I am...
  - renox 6y ago
    How about rewriting Haiku in Rust, porting it on top of Genode/SeL4 to run it on RISC V?
whywhywhywhy 6y ago
Is it even possible? I mean my standard of faithful would be something that feels coherent and solid not just a selection of skins slapped together that looks ok in a screenshot but just doesn't feel right in use. The extreme modularity of Linux is absolutely one of its strengths but honestly at this point it just seems like such a modular system can never really feel as coherent and solid as a system built as a single unit from a user experience point of view.

People have tried it before, but all those projects are now defunct. Ultimately it winds up being "just another Linux desktop environment", or even a mere reskin of another DE. The kind of deep system integration that is possible when the entire system is developed as one project is extremely difficult, if not actually impossible, to do in the Linux ecosystem.

willtim 6y ago
Unfortunately as much as I love Linux, you are absolutely right. But I think it more of a social problem than a technical one.
zozbot234 6y ago
The main appeal of Haiku OS back in the day was its soft-realtime focus wrt. UX and multimedia, and you could get there quite easily with modern-day Linux. Especially if you add the PREEMPT_RT patchset and use the cgroups2 tuning knobs to improve priority of user-interaction tasks.
- outworlder 6y ago
  The filesystem was pretty amazing too (and maybe still is?).
LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
Crazy idea: Have you ever thought of porting your desktop environment to Genode? ( https://genode.org/ https://genode.org/ ) And fully integrating their Sculpt into it? I mean, on Amd64 you are already binary incompatible, so that wouldn't count as an argument against it.
- waddlesplash 6y ago
  Someone suggested it (but then, the community is large enough that all far-fetched-but-not-impossible ideas have probably been mentioned at one point or another :)). I don't really know what the differences between porting Haiku's userland to that or to Linux would be. Everyone loves to make arguments about how microkernels are so great and all, but there still isn't a major operating system or distribution with a significant number of everyday users on one. Plus, all of our same philosophical objections to using the Linux (or any other kernel) as the basis for Haiku would still apply.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
    Hm. For one they have seamless Virtual Box integration. Which means NATIVE vbox-port running on that, and fast. Can use one of the fastest (message passing) micro kernels available. Which seems fitting to the concepts of Haiku from my layman point of view? What i'd imagine is your desktop, with the exact look and feel and usage concepts ripped free from Beos/Haiku kernel stuff, and running atop SeL4 instead, with BFS running in some user task, thereby not loosing all the database/tag-capable stuff for the DE. Maybe even having more drivers for contemporary hardware? Also security, network stack?
  - chelmuth 6y ago
    Also some one started it with HoG (Haiku on Genode) https://discuss.haiku-os.org/t/genode-and-haiku/8384 https://discuss.haiku-os.org/t/genode-and-haiku/8384
    - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
      Phew! Not so crazy I am...
- renox 6y ago
  How about rewriting Haiku in Rust, porting it on top of Genode/SeL4 to run it on RISC V?

whywhywhywhy 6y ago

Is it even possible? I mean my standard of faithful would be something that feels coherent and solid not just a selection of skins slapped together that looks ok in a screenshot but just doesn't feel right in use. The extreme modularity of Linux is absolutely one of its strengths but honestly at this point it just seems like such a modular system can never really feel as coherent and solid as a system built as a single unit from a user experience point of view.