5 ms·

This is complete bullshit, and would give AT&T an effective monopoly on GSM based wireless communications in a number of key markets. I say we collectively work

by dres 16y ago

This is complete bullshit, and would give AT&T an effective monopoly on GSM based wireless communications in a number of key markets. I say we collectively work to lobby against this deal, as it will be bad for all of us who are based in the US and looking to do ANYTHING in mobile. Imagine if Apple had tried to get their iPhone AppStore arrangement in a single-GSM carrier world? It's 2011, folks. We can't let oppressive regimes have their way.

greattypo 16y ago
Imagine if Apple had tried to get their iPhone AppStore arrangement in a single-GSM carrier world? Apple still had to choose between Verizon or AT&T. From what I've heard, Sprint, T-Mobile, etc. were never in the running.
- jedbrown 16y ago
  Verizon was not a GSM carrier.
  - greattypo 16y ago
    I'm aware. The point is that they were still only negotiating with a single GSM carrier.
    - jedbrown 16y ago
      Using CDMA in the US and GSM in the rest of the world would mean different hardware. Were they ever seriously considering that?
      - greattypo 16y ago
        Yes, in fact, they approached Verizon about the iPhone before AT&T.
        uxp 16y ago
        And one of the results of that talk was that it would not be beneficial to manufacture two handset models, so they walked away to look at the bigger picture.
tptacek 16y ago
Why do we care what the market share is for specific transmission technologies? The overall wireless market is extremely competitive.
- nerfhammer 16y ago
  20 cent text messages both ways is competitive?
  - tptacek 16y ago
    So, buy a Sprint phone with unlimited texting? (Wait a minute; I don't appear to be paying $0.20 for text messages either, and I'm AT&T.)
    - nerfhammer 16y ago
      It costs an additional $19.95 a month for unlimited texting on the (at&t) iphone plan last I checked.
    - whakojacko 16y ago
      Sprint plans with unlimited texting are still much more expensive than similar in Europe. Their 450 Minute "Everything" plan is $50/mo with a 2 year contract. That might be good for the US, but its not good relavitely speaking. Just as an example, I looked through vodafone UK's 24 month plans and I found 600 minutes and unlimited texting for the equivalent of $32 per month.
      - dmm 16y ago
        Virgin Mobile USA (owned by Sprint) has similar plans. Unlimited texts + 300mins/month for $25 prepaid. 1200mins for $40.
  - SandB0x 16y ago
    Wow, on a sim-only quit-any-time plan in the UK, I pay £10 per month for unlimited texts, unlimited internet (though tethering is apparently against the TOS) and 250 minutes (I never use these up). And I've never had to pay to receive a text on any network.
amock 16y ago
Why does it matter that they're the only GSM provider? Why aren't other technologies competition?
- dangrossman 16y ago
  It matters because it increases the switching cost for anyone that wants to go to a competitor. You can't bring your phone with you, so you MUST make an upfront commitment of either buying a phone or signing a 2 year contract to get the phone without an upfront cost. When there are multiple companies that provide the network type your phone uses, you can move between them at no cost.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - tptacek 16y ago
    But with only two providers of GSM, you already have emerging cartel pricing dynamics. It's not even as good as airlines (which are also somewhat collusively pricied), where you usually have 5-6 choices for any trip. More competition is good, but, from a pragmatic perspective, the loss in competition (such as it is) might not outweigh the gain in efficiency for AT&T and T-Mobile subs.
    - uxp 16y ago
      > But with only two providers of GSM, you already have emerging cartel pricing dynamics. And people already complain about the fact that there are only 2 GSM providers and 2 CDMA providers in the US. Your statement appears to me to be "I don't understand why you are complaining, it's not much worse than what we already have", but people already don't like what we have. This just makes it worse. Between a rock and a hard place, I guess. I completely understand your point, but slowly taking away options and freedoms to slowly turn a free and complacent consumer base into a single group under control of one entity is not a cool thing to do. Look at the current political debate over wiretaps and the PATRIOT act, it's the same idea. Our choices as consumers and citizens are slowly being whittled away and no one gives a shit because "It won't be much worse than what we already have."
SkyMarshal 16y ago
I'm in. I've been a happy Tmobile customer for years. Not looking forward to ATT ruining it all.
rospaya 16y ago
Are you suggesting bombing the AT&T HQ?

by dres 16y ago

greattypo 16y ago

Imagine if Apple had tried to get their iPhone AppStore arrangement in a single-GSM carrier world? Apple still had to choose between Verizon or AT&T. From what I've heard, Sprint, T-Mobile, etc. were never in the running.

jedbrown 16y ago
Verizon was not a GSM carrier.
- greattypo 16y ago
  I'm aware. The point is that they were still only negotiating with a single GSM carrier.
  - jedbrown 16y ago
    Using CDMA in the US and GSM in the rest of the world would mean different hardware. Were they ever seriously considering that?
    - greattypo 16y ago
      Yes, in fact, they approached Verizon about the iPhone before AT&T.
      - uxp 16y ago
        And one of the results of that talk was that it would not be beneficial to manufacture two handset models, so they walked away to look at the bigger picture.

tptacek 16y ago

Why do we care what the market share is for specific transmission technologies? The overall wireless market is extremely competitive.

nerfhammer 16y ago
20 cent text messages both ways is competitive?
- tptacek 16y ago
  So, buy a Sprint phone with unlimited texting? (Wait a minute; I don't appear to be paying $0.20 for text messages either, and I'm AT&T.)
  - nerfhammer 16y ago
    It costs an additional $19.95 a month for unlimited texting on the (at&t) iphone plan last I checked.
  - whakojacko 16y ago
    Sprint plans with unlimited texting are still much more expensive than similar in Europe. Their 450 Minute "Everything" plan is $50/mo with a 2 year contract. That might be good for the US, but its not good relavitely speaking. Just as an example, I looked through vodafone UK's 24 month plans and I found 600 minutes and unlimited texting for the equivalent of $32 per month.
    - dmm 16y ago
      Virgin Mobile USA (owned by Sprint) has similar plans. Unlimited texts + 300mins/month for $25 prepaid. 1200mins for $40.
- SandB0x 16y ago
  Wow, on a sim-only quit-any-time plan in the UK, I pay £10 per month for unlimited texts, unlimited internet (though tethering is apparently against the TOS) and 250 minutes (I never use these up). And I've never had to pay to receive a text on any network.

amock 16y ago

Why does it matter that they're the only GSM provider? Why aren't other technologies competition?

dangrossman 16y ago
It matters because it increases the switching cost for anyone that wants to go to a competitor. You can't bring your phone with you, so you MUST make an upfront commitment of either buying a phone or signing a 2 year contract to get the phone without an upfront cost. When there are multiple companies that provide the network type your phone uses, you can move between them at no cost.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- tptacek 16y ago
  But with only two providers of GSM, you already have emerging cartel pricing dynamics. It's not even as good as airlines (which are also somewhat collusively pricied), where you usually have 5-6 choices for any trip. More competition is good, but, from a pragmatic perspective, the loss in competition (such as it is) might not outweigh the gain in efficiency for AT&T and T-Mobile subs.
  - uxp 16y ago
    > But with only two providers of GSM, you already have emerging cartel pricing dynamics. And people already complain about the fact that there are only 2 GSM providers and 2 CDMA providers in the US. Your statement appears to me to be "I don't understand why you are complaining, it's not much worse than what we already have", but people already don't like what we have. This just makes it worse. Between a rock and a hard place, I guess. I completely understand your point, but slowly taking away options and freedoms to slowly turn a free and complacent consumer base into a single group under control of one entity is not a cool thing to do. Look at the current political debate over wiretaps and the PATRIOT act, it's the same idea. Our choices as consumers and citizens are slowly being whittled away and no one gives a shit because "It won't be much worse than what we already have."

SkyMarshal 16y ago

I'm in. I've been a happy Tmobile customer for years. Not looking forward to ATT ruining it all.

rospaya 16y ago

Are you suggesting bombing the AT&T HQ?