3 ms·

>Do people work under the assumption that sudo is meant to protect against malicious actors? I wonder if it comes from having a windows mindset and the way win

>Do people work under the assumption that sudo is meant to protect against malicious actors? I wonder if it comes from having a windows mindset and the way windows screams at you about unauthorized software and forces you to use an administrator password for random arbitrary things while saying it's for your protection. With windows background as a single user operating system, heavily targetted by malware this makes sense. Then they come onto linux, find out they need to use sudo to install things from package managers or access files in the root directory and immediately that protecting themselves mindset comes into play. However, taking into account Linux's background as a multi-user operating system, this mindset makes less sense as the tools while working similarly at a shallow level, were designed for totally.different purposes.

windthrown 6y ago
> I wonder if it comes from having a windows mindset and the way windows screams at you about unauthorized software and forces you to use an administrator password for random arbitrary things while saying it's for your protection. As a novice Linux user, that was exactly my mindset and reasoning.
stinos 6y ago
Seeing that what you describe is a fairly recent thing in windows in the larger scale of things (assuming you talk about the UAC prompt): I'm not sure that has much to do with it. I met people working under that asumption 2 decades ago as well. random arbitrary things From what I can see that's not the case at all. In fact for me it seems rather sudo-y. Want to change system files? Need sudo / UAC. Want to install software (which is basically like the first case)? Need sudo / UAC? Want to screw up your home directory? No need for sudo, no UAC.
- snazz 6y ago
  Depending on your UAC protection level, you might have to enter your password for normal Settings and Control Panel changes too. Additionally, a lot of registry settings are things that should be user settings. Want to remap caps to escape? That would normally be a per-user window manager setting on Unix, but on Windows you have to use the Registry Editor.
  - stinos 6y ago
    True, but that's still not really what I'd call random or arbitrary. registry settings are things that should be user settings User settings are most of the time registry settings since that thing is used where other OS use plain files :) But I know what you mean, some of the choices which were once made are strange and because of the sometimes annoying "let's keep things backwards compatible forever" principle it's also not likely to change soon. Then again, pretty sure for remapping there are workarounds in the form of creating your own keyboard layout for which MS has tools. Now if changing a keyboard layout still requires a UAC prompt (I really hope it doesn't) you're still nowhere.
  - WorldMaker 6y ago
    The keyboard remapping in the Registry Editor is done at the kernel level, so of course it is a system-wide setting. There's a new PowerToy for Windows that does key remapping at the "window manager" level and does not need administrator access unless you want to also remap that key in administrator applications. Most of the other "normal" Setting/Control Panel changes that need UAC prompts for certain classes of users have similar explanations. What Windows considers a system-level or multi-user setting certainly differs than *nix, but it doesn't necessarily mean there isn't a good reason why it differs. Some of that is that Windows (NT branch, XP+) is a multi-user operating system most widely deployed by people that assume it is a single-user operating system and exacerbated by confusion where Windows mostly pretends to be compatible with a single-user operating system legacy (3.x/95-ME) right up until it cannot anymore and sometimes the multi-user-ness comes out to bite.
marcoperaza 6y ago
Just to say more directly say what someone else said: this is ahistorical. What you're talking about, Windows UAC, is a relatively recent innovation in the Windows world, first introduced with Windows Vista. Obsession (maybe well-placed) with limiting usage of root for security reasons was a concept in Linux system administration well before that. Also, the normal UAC setup for a consumer device does not require a password, just pressing a button.

windthrown 6y ago

> I wonder if it comes from having a windows mindset and the way windows screams at you about unauthorized software and forces you to use an administrator password for random arbitrary things while saying it's for your protection. As a novice Linux user, that was exactly my mindset and reasoning.

stinos 6y ago

Seeing that what you describe is a fairly recent thing in windows in the larger scale of things (assuming you talk about the UAC prompt): I'm not sure that has much to do with it. I met people working under that asumption 2 decades ago as well. random arbitrary things From what I can see that's not the case at all. In fact for me it seems rather sudo-y. Want to change system files? Need sudo / UAC. Want to install software (which is basically like the first case)? Need sudo / UAC? Want to screw up your home directory? No need for sudo, no UAC.

snazz 6y ago
Depending on your UAC protection level, you might have to enter your password for normal Settings and Control Panel changes too. Additionally, a lot of registry settings are things that should be user settings. Want to remap caps to escape? That would normally be a per-user window manager setting on Unix, but on Windows you have to use the Registry Editor.
- stinos 6y ago
  True, but that's still not really what I'd call random or arbitrary. registry settings are things that should be user settings User settings are most of the time registry settings since that thing is used where other OS use plain files :) But I know what you mean, some of the choices which were once made are strange and because of the sometimes annoying "let's keep things backwards compatible forever" principle it's also not likely to change soon. Then again, pretty sure for remapping there are workarounds in the form of creating your own keyboard layout for which MS has tools. Now if changing a keyboard layout still requires a UAC prompt (I really hope it doesn't) you're still nowhere.
- WorldMaker 6y ago
  The keyboard remapping in the Registry Editor is done at the kernel level, so of course it is a system-wide setting. There's a new PowerToy for Windows that does key remapping at the "window manager" level and does not need administrator access unless you want to also remap that key in administrator applications. Most of the other "normal" Setting/Control Panel changes that need UAC prompts for certain classes of users have similar explanations. What Windows considers a system-level or multi-user setting certainly differs than *nix, but it doesn't necessarily mean there isn't a good reason why it differs. Some of that is that Windows (NT branch, XP+) is a multi-user operating system most widely deployed by people that assume it is a single-user operating system and exacerbated by confusion where Windows mostly pretends to be compatible with a single-user operating system legacy (3.x/95-ME) right up until it cannot anymore and sometimes the multi-user-ness comes out to bite.

marcoperaza 6y ago

Just to say more directly say what someone else said: this is ahistorical. What you're talking about, Windows UAC, is a relatively recent innovation in the Windows world, first introduced with Windows Vista. Obsession (maybe well-placed) with limiting usage of root for security reasons was a concept in Linux system administration well before that. Also, the normal UAC setup for a consumer device does not require a password, just pressing a button.