7 ms·

I feel like your technology should be simply a set of tools that assist you. If you’re a “bad” person, logically your technology should help you be bad. And i

I feel like your technology should be simply a set of tools that assist you. If you’re a “bad” person, logically your technology should help you be bad. And if you’re good, the same. But never would I want my technology to inform me what is good or bad, or permit me one path over the other. That is my decision as the human in the relationship.

mc32 6y ago
Yeah I wouldn’t be surprised that one day you search for 3D printing something “bad” (as defined by someone) gets you redirected to advocacy groups against something. Search for abortion resources, search for 3D printing a firearm, search for pirated movies, search for being anonymous in a protest... all get redirected to the right way to think of things. The FBI should just go ahead and ask them for the good of the people to redirect all terms they categorize as terroristic in nature to their anti radicalization resources...
- knolax 6y ago
  That already happens with google and topics such as self harm or racism. Googling "I hate X" is going to turn up multiple results like "History of Discrimination Against X" and no articles that actually express hatred for X.
  - wadkar 6y ago
    It makes doing research using the search giant mostly useless.
  - vertex-four 6y ago
    That's because nobody says "I hate X" because they would, rightfully, be ignored. It's not a useful statement to try and publish and get to the top of Google. I just tried a few dogwhistle phrases and it's not hard to find people legitimately espousing these views. Also: you can very easily find hate groups and where they hang out on the internet through Google. You'll also, correctly, find adequate warning that these groups are probably not places you want to be.
    - at_a_remove 6y ago
      Weird. Hit Google and try "I hate men." Plenty of hits, from people expressing those views.
      - Ntrails 6y ago
        Huh, weird. Resuming patrol.
      - gremlinsinc 6y ago
        Why do some whites, men, or white men, always want to be a victim when they're the cause of so much pain and suffering collectively? (I say this as a white man, but I don't presume that we haven't fucked up the lives of so many over the centuries). Maybe it's time for us to just STFU and let other minority groups take the lead and become our leaders because we don't know how to lead compassionately, maybe they can where we failed.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
        jpd- 6y ago
        For the same reason other groups complain when sweeping generalizations are made about them.
        gremlinsinc 6y ago
        This one is kind of warranted. What color was Hitler? How many did columbus murder? Napoleon? Mussolini? How many have police murdered? How many times did blacks bomb an entire city of wealthy white people in America and get away w/ it? Okay what about the opposite? 0:1. Until we RIGHT the course, we ARE part of the problem.
        at_a_remove 6y ago
        Look up the Ruwandan Uprising: what color were they? Barbary Slave Trade: what color were they? Khmer Rouge: what color were they? People massacre one another at the drop of a hat, just learn some history. You have been taught to only fixate on the crimes of Caucasians and to ignore all others.
pjc50 6y ago
> If you’re a “bad” person, logically your technology should help you be bad The key word here is not "bad" but "your". Whose technology is Siri?
- young_unixer 6y ago
  In this context, the phone owner's.
q3k 6y ago
> If you’re a “bad” person, logically your technology should help you be bad. With apologies to Godwin, but IBM and the Holocaust [1] will always be relevant in these discussions. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust
- malandrew 6y ago
  A straw man to your straw man would suggest that Apple shouldn't even sell technology to such people or should at least just brick the phone of anyone responsible for thoughtcrime. There's a world of difference between exploring the world of information and genocide. When entities like Apple start doing things like this is it pouring gasoline on conspiracy theory fires, and one can argue makes things worse. It's also a classic case of the Streisand Effect.
- pjkundert 6y ago
  The social elites proudly flaunted their swastika jewelry in the late 30s. The business elites supported Nazis widely. What thugs are the social, political and business elites supporting today?
suprfsat 6y ago
Previously: https://web.archive.org/web/20040607132019/https://www.google.com/explanation.html https://web.archive.org/web/20040607132019/https://www.googl...
starpilot 6y ago
I think they should definitely choose what should go viral though. You can Google ALM to your heart's content on an iPhone, they just don't facilitate it through the lower-resistance modes of querying.
- malandrew 6y ago
  Imagine google coming of age at different times in American history. It's merely a coincidence that what google is preferring aligns with your sensibilities. What if google were making these editorial decisions during WWII? Would you be redirected away from things supportive Japanese Americans that were place in internment camps? How about during the red scare? Would you be directed to Hollywood blacklists? How about during the civil rights era? Would you be directed to content arguing in favor of segregation? Contrary to popular liberal belief, the Black community in America is not a borg with one hive mind. There's a lot of diversity of thought within that community and people that dissent from the very narrow viewpoint that many gatekeepers who lean left are promoting. There's a lot more thoughtfulness and nuance in discussion than promoting one-sided activism would suggest. In fact, this active filtering robs that community (and other communities that are filtered) of their agency. Here's a list of people from the black community with dissenting opinions that I can name quickly off the top of my head and I'm sure there are many many more: Shelby Steele, John McWhorter, Glenn Loury, Thomas Sowell, Coleman Hughes, Kmele Foster, Roland G. Fryer Jr. Anthony Mackey, Morgan Freeman, Denzel Washington, Larry Sharpe, Pastor Corey Brooks, Eric July
  - pjkundert 6y ago
    It astonishes me how greedily people embrace extinguishing the liberties of others (and externalizing their costs to them), while they feel their echo-chamber forms the majority. It’s almost like they can’t imagine a scenario where they are the minority, and might wish to pursue their own beliefs in peace... Especially shameful here on HN, which claims to be an especially intellectually open-minded community! For shame, that you present an accurate, supported analysis of risks that doesn’t support the current dogma! ;)
    - 6y ago
eyelidlessness 6y ago
Technology is never neutral. It always reflects the biases of its creators, and of the social environment in which it's developed. Those biases may directly contradict the goals you expressed. For example, if self-driving car technology has racist biases, a "good" person may still end up on the inside of a car that chooses an escape route with a pedestrian of color in its path over an escape route which has no pedestrians. Neutrality is a myth. Actively promoting values and challenging biases is preferable. You don't have to agree with the values promoted, and you're welcome to choose not to use the technology.
- armatav 6y ago
  Your Siri unit should not be altering your commands. It is that simple.
  - eyelidlessness 6y ago
    It does all the time. It has since before it was acquired by Apple.
    - armatav 6y ago
      This is a deliberate blacklisting of a command based on a political agenda. Technology is built in service to mankind.
      - eyelidlessness 6y ago
        "Black lives matter" is not a political agenda, it is explicitly a service to mankind.
        armatav 6y ago
        Machines should not alter user input.
        6y ago
dragonwriter 6y ago
> If you’re a “bad” person, logically your technology should help you be bad. > And if you’re good, the same. That is almost tautologically the case of how technology works, but Siri isn’t your technology (where you = the end user), it is Apple’s.
koala_man 6y ago
>If you’re a “bad” person, logically your technology should help you be bad. I think this oversteps the Silicon Valley idea that technology is always inherently beneficial. It's really not unfair that I can buy gardening gloves and radish seeds on Amazon, while a domestic terrorist has to sneak around and lie to buy a barrel of nitromethane. We should not be using our technology to enable both equally, and then leave it to the individual to decide whether to plant a garden or a bomb.
uniqueid 6y ago
Just help anybody! Have no ethics! There's an awful lot of ink that's been spilt over amoral companies. People truly learn sweet FA from history.
eyelidlessness 6y ago
This is an example of my previous response on the matter: https://twitter.com/nycantifa/status/1270742009813352449?s=21 https://twitter.com/nycantifa/status/1270742009813352449?s=2...

mc32 6y ago

Yeah I wouldn’t be surprised that one day you search for 3D printing something “bad” (as defined by someone) gets you redirected to advocacy groups against something. Search for abortion resources, search for 3D printing a firearm, search for pirated movies, search for being anonymous in a protest... all get redirected to the right way to think of things. The FBI should just go ahead and ask them for the good of the people to redirect all terms they categorize as terroristic in nature to their anti radicalization resources...

knolax 6y ago
That already happens with google and topics such as self harm or racism. Googling "I hate X" is going to turn up multiple results like "History of Discrimination Against X" and no articles that actually express hatred for X.
- wadkar 6y ago
  It makes doing research using the search giant mostly useless.
- vertex-four 6y ago
  That's because nobody says "I hate X" because they would, rightfully, be ignored. It's not a useful statement to try and publish and get to the top of Google. I just tried a few dogwhistle phrases and it's not hard to find people legitimately espousing these views. Also: you can very easily find hate groups and where they hang out on the internet through Google. You'll also, correctly, find adequate warning that these groups are probably not places you want to be.
  - at_a_remove 6y ago
    Weird. Hit Google and try "I hate men." Plenty of hits, from people expressing those views.
    - Ntrails 6y ago
      Huh, weird. Resuming patrol.
    - gremlinsinc 6y ago
      Why do some whites, men, or white men, always want to be a victim when they're the cause of so much pain and suffering collectively? (I say this as a white man, but I don't presume that we haven't fucked up the lives of so many over the centuries). Maybe it's time for us to just STFU and let other minority groups take the lead and become our leaders because we don't know how to lead compassionately, maybe they can where we failed.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - jpd- 6y ago
        For the same reason other groups complain when sweeping generalizations are made about them.
        gremlinsinc 6y ago
        This one is kind of warranted. What color was Hitler? How many did columbus murder? Napoleon? Mussolini? How many have police murdered? How many times did blacks bomb an entire city of wealthy white people in America and get away w/ it? Okay what about the opposite? 0:1. Until we RIGHT the course, we ARE part of the problem.
        at_a_remove 6y ago
        Look up the Ruwandan Uprising: what color were they? Barbary Slave Trade: what color were they? Khmer Rouge: what color were they? People massacre one another at the drop of a hat, just learn some history. You have been taught to only fixate on the crimes of Caucasians and to ignore all others.

pjc50 6y ago

> If you’re a “bad” person, logically your technology should help you be bad The key word here is not "bad" but "your". Whose technology is Siri?

young_unixer 6y ago
In this context, the phone owner's.

q3k 6y ago

> If you’re a “bad” person, logically your technology should help you be bad. With apologies to Godwin, but IBM and the Holocaust [1] will always be relevant in these discussions. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust

malandrew 6y ago
A straw man to your straw man would suggest that Apple shouldn't even sell technology to such people or should at least just brick the phone of anyone responsible for thoughtcrime. There's a world of difference between exploring the world of information and genocide. When entities like Apple start doing things like this is it pouring gasoline on conspiracy theory fires, and one can argue makes things worse. It's also a classic case of the Streisand Effect.
pjkundert 6y ago
The social elites proudly flaunted their swastika jewelry in the late 30s. The business elites supported Nazis widely. What thugs are the social, political and business elites supporting today?

suprfsat 6y ago

Previously: https://web.archive.org/web/20040607132019/https://www.google.com/explanation.html https://web.archive.org/web/20040607132019/https://www.googl...

starpilot 6y ago

I think they should definitely choose what should go viral though. You can Google ALM to your heart's content on an iPhone, they just don't facilitate it through the lower-resistance modes of querying.

malandrew 6y ago
Imagine google coming of age at different times in American history. It's merely a coincidence that what google is preferring aligns with your sensibilities. What if google were making these editorial decisions during WWII? Would you be redirected away from things supportive Japanese Americans that were place in internment camps? How about during the red scare? Would you be directed to Hollywood blacklists? How about during the civil rights era? Would you be directed to content arguing in favor of segregation? Contrary to popular liberal belief, the Black community in America is not a borg with one hive mind. There's a lot of diversity of thought within that community and people that dissent from the very narrow viewpoint that many gatekeepers who lean left are promoting. There's a lot more thoughtfulness and nuance in discussion than promoting one-sided activism would suggest. In fact, this active filtering robs that community (and other communities that are filtered) of their agency. Here's a list of people from the black community with dissenting opinions that I can name quickly off the top of my head and I'm sure there are many many more: Shelby Steele, John McWhorter, Glenn Loury, Thomas Sowell, Coleman Hughes, Kmele Foster, Roland G. Fryer Jr. Anthony Mackey, Morgan Freeman, Denzel Washington, Larry Sharpe, Pastor Corey Brooks, Eric July
- pjkundert 6y ago
  It astonishes me how greedily people embrace extinguishing the liberties of others (and externalizing their costs to them), while they feel their echo-chamber forms the majority. It’s almost like they can’t imagine a scenario where they are the minority, and might wish to pursue their own beliefs in peace... Especially shameful here on HN, which claims to be an especially intellectually open-minded community! For shame, that you present an accurate, supported analysis of risks that doesn’t support the current dogma! ;)
  - 6y ago

eyelidlessness 6y ago

Technology is never neutral. It always reflects the biases of its creators, and of the social environment in which it's developed. Those biases may directly contradict the goals you expressed. For example, if self-driving car technology has racist biases, a "good" person may still end up on the inside of a car that chooses an escape route with a pedestrian of color in its path over an escape route which has no pedestrians. Neutrality is a myth. Actively promoting values and challenging biases is preferable. You don't have to agree with the values promoted, and you're welcome to choose not to use the technology.

armatav 6y ago
Your Siri unit should not be altering your commands. It is that simple.
- eyelidlessness 6y ago
  It does all the time. It has since before it was acquired by Apple.
  - armatav 6y ago
    This is a deliberate blacklisting of a command based on a political agenda. Technology is built in service to mankind.
    - eyelidlessness 6y ago
      "Black lives matter" is not a political agenda, it is explicitly a service to mankind.
      - armatav 6y ago
        Machines should not alter user input.
        6y ago

dragonwriter 6y ago

> If you’re a “bad” person, logically your technology should help you be bad. > And if you’re good, the same. That is almost tautologically the case of how technology works, but Siri isn’t your technology (where you = the end user), it is Apple’s.

koala_man 6y ago

>If you’re a “bad” person, logically your technology should help you be bad. I think this oversteps the Silicon Valley idea that technology is always inherently beneficial. It's really not unfair that I can buy gardening gloves and radish seeds on Amazon, while a domestic terrorist has to sneak around and lie to buy a barrel of nitromethane. We should not be using our technology to enable both equally, and then leave it to the individual to decide whether to plant a garden or a bomb.

uniqueid 6y ago

Just help anybody! Have no ethics! There's an awful lot of ink that's been spilt over amoral companies. People truly learn sweet FA from history.

eyelidlessness 6y ago

This is an example of my previous response on the matter: https://twitter.com/nycantifa/status/1270742009813352449?s=21 https://twitter.com/nycantifa/status/1270742009813352449?s=2...