3 ms·

Wait, why not 2014? I have a mid-2014 13" rMBP and it's pretty great (except MacOS has gotten worse). What changed after 2013?

bob1029 6y ago
I actually have no strong opinion regarding the 2014 year. 2013 was just when I happened to step into the store and pick one up. I believe they're pretty close in terms of features/quality.
Wowfunhappy 6y ago
Well, the last non-shit version of OS X is Mavericks, which came out in 2013. :) (I'm not 100% sure whether the 2014 MBP can run Mavericks, it depends on when exactly in 2014 in was released.)
- birdyrooster 6y ago
  Wrong the last non-shit version is Leopard because I can run it on PPC. You can’t prove me wrong unless you escalate the purity spiral.
  - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
    Well, for what it's worth, I practice what I preach—I'm typing this on a Hackintosh I purpose-built for Mavericks compatibility in early March. :) But just for fun, if your benchmark is Power PC support then I am delighted to introduce the latest version of OS X that can run on your hardware: newly-PPC-compatible Snow Leopard! https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/snow-leopard-on-unsupported-ppc-machines.2232031/ https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/snow-leopard-on-unsuppo...
    - birdyrooster 6y ago
      It's not retail, you have to modify it. No thanks.
    - arm 6y ago
      Wow, really cool to see that it’s possible to get developer beta builds of Snow Leopard working on PPC; thanks for linking the thread!
    - mycall 6y ago
      Are you not worried about security vulnerabilities? Otherwise I love your idea here.
      - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
        Here's the little security analysis I did for myself. This machine: • Is running an up-to-date web browser (Firefox ESR). • Has all important data backed up to cold storage regularly. • Is behind a router. All incoming ports are closed, except one for ssh. I've looked through openssh's CVE list and there's nothing concerning. • Is running local software which I consider trusted. I was originally also planning to get a copy of Little Snitch, as an additional form of monitoring. I haven't actually done that yet, but I should. Some possible attack scenarios I can imagine: • There's a zero day in Firefox. My vulnerable OS does not offer the extra layers of protection that a newer one might. • Someone exploits Spectre/Meltdown/etc via Javascript. My attacker is incredibly lucky, and the tiny portion of memory they retrieve just so happens to be the bit that contains something vital like Bitwarden's master password. • Someone emails me a malicious image which isn't caught by Gmail (personal accounts) or Microsoft Exchange (work account), and it infects my machine upon being rendered by Apple Mail. • A person I know/trust is tricked into sending me an infected document, likely a PDF or MS Office file. Even though I don't have Acrobat or Microsoft Office installed, the vulnerability is compatible with Preview and/or iWork '09. None of these scenarios seem particularly likely. The key here is that I'm not important enough to get hit by a targeted attack, and frankly I don't think I would survive one on an up-to-date OS anyway. In exchange for this minor risk, using my computer makes me much happier right now than it did six months ago.
- jrsj 6y ago
  I feel like it peaked in Snow Leopard to be honest. I can't think of a single time it ever crashed on me. Even with a 5400 RPM spinny disk it felt fast as hell.
  - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
    I post this every time it comes up: I am convinced that Snow Leopard is remembered overly-fondly because Lion was so comparatively bad. I did a lot of testing between Snow Leopard, Mountain Lion, and Mavericks in Virtual Machines side-by-side (because I wanted to switch my main machine over to one of the three), and could not find any reason to pick Snow Leopard. Mavericks really benefits a lot from memory compression in particular (although this is of course moot if you have memory to spare). I admittedly didn't test with an HDD though, Snow Leopard would probably have done better there. On the other hand, you give up a lot of good, useful features by going with Snow Leopard. I know a lot of Mac users were annoyed with autosaving when it was first introduced, but I remember typing essays with Pages on Snow Leopard in High School, and losing many hours of work due to the lack of any autosave functionality.
- amatecha 6y ago
  I agree on this, I never wanted to update beyond Mavericks, but was forced to because I bought an iPhone 8 and Apple's website lied about Mavericks being supported (turns out the version of iTunes required to use an iPhone 8 required Yosemite -- they updated the website a few weeks later)...
- chooseaname 6y ago
  I had Mavericks on my 2014. I kept it on there until El Cap. I agree, everything that has come since has been, in most ways, worse.

bob1029 6y ago

I actually have no strong opinion regarding the 2014 year. 2013 was just when I happened to step into the store and pick one up. I believe they're pretty close in terms of features/quality.

Wowfunhappy 6y ago

Well, the last non-shit version of OS X is Mavericks, which came out in 2013. :) (I'm not 100% sure whether the 2014 MBP can run Mavericks, it depends on when exactly in 2014 in was released.)

birdyrooster 6y ago
Wrong the last non-shit version is Leopard because I can run it on PPC. You can’t prove me wrong unless you escalate the purity spiral.
- Wowfunhappy 6y ago
  Well, for what it's worth, I practice what I preach—I'm typing this on a Hackintosh I purpose-built for Mavericks compatibility in early March. :) But just for fun, if your benchmark is Power PC support then I am delighted to introduce the latest version of OS X that can run on your hardware: newly-PPC-compatible Snow Leopard! https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/snow-leopard-on-unsupported-ppc-machines.2232031/ https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/snow-leopard-on-unsuppo...
  - birdyrooster 6y ago
    It's not retail, you have to modify it. No thanks.
  - arm 6y ago
    Wow, really cool to see that it’s possible to get developer beta builds of Snow Leopard working on PPC; thanks for linking the thread!
  - mycall 6y ago
    Are you not worried about security vulnerabilities? Otherwise I love your idea here.
    - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
      Here's the little security analysis I did for myself. This machine: • Is running an up-to-date web browser (Firefox ESR). • Has all important data backed up to cold storage regularly. • Is behind a router. All incoming ports are closed, except one for ssh. I've looked through openssh's CVE list and there's nothing concerning. • Is running local software which I consider trusted. I was originally also planning to get a copy of Little Snitch, as an additional form of monitoring. I haven't actually done that yet, but I should. Some possible attack scenarios I can imagine: • There's a zero day in Firefox. My vulnerable OS does not offer the extra layers of protection that a newer one might. • Someone exploits Spectre/Meltdown/etc via Javascript. My attacker is incredibly lucky, and the tiny portion of memory they retrieve just so happens to be the bit that contains something vital like Bitwarden's master password. • Someone emails me a malicious image which isn't caught by Gmail (personal accounts) or Microsoft Exchange (work account), and it infects my machine upon being rendered by Apple Mail. • A person I know/trust is tricked into sending me an infected document, likely a PDF or MS Office file. Even though I don't have Acrobat or Microsoft Office installed, the vulnerability is compatible with Preview and/or iWork '09. None of these scenarios seem particularly likely. The key here is that I'm not important enough to get hit by a targeted attack, and frankly I don't think I would survive one on an up-to-date OS anyway. In exchange for this minor risk, using my computer makes me much happier right now than it did six months ago.
jrsj 6y ago
I feel like it peaked in Snow Leopard to be honest. I can't think of a single time it ever crashed on me. Even with a 5400 RPM spinny disk it felt fast as hell.
- Wowfunhappy 6y ago
  I post this every time it comes up: I am convinced that Snow Leopard is remembered overly-fondly because Lion was so comparatively bad. I did a lot of testing between Snow Leopard, Mountain Lion, and Mavericks in Virtual Machines side-by-side (because I wanted to switch my main machine over to one of the three), and could not find any reason to pick Snow Leopard. Mavericks really benefits a lot from memory compression in particular (although this is of course moot if you have memory to spare). I admittedly didn't test with an HDD though, Snow Leopard would probably have done better there. On the other hand, you give up a lot of good, useful features by going with Snow Leopard. I know a lot of Mac users were annoyed with autosaving when it was first introduced, but I remember typing essays with Pages on Snow Leopard in High School, and losing many hours of work due to the lack of any autosave functionality.
amatecha 6y ago
I agree on this, I never wanted to update beyond Mavericks, but was forced to because I bought an iPhone 8 and Apple's website lied about Mavericks being supported (turns out the version of iTunes required to use an iPhone 8 required Yosemite -- they updated the website a few weeks later)...
chooseaname 6y ago
I had Mavericks on my 2014. I kept it on there until El Cap. I agree, everything that has come since has been, in most ways, worse.